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[Music]

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the radio for the masses headline

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edition july 8th 1947

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the army air forces has announced that a

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flying bit has been found and is now in

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the possession of the army

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if the game is rigged change the game

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game changer

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i occasionally think how quickly

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our differences worldwide

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would vanish

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if we were facing an alien threat from

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this is fade to black it's your host

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jimmy church on the game changer radio

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network and kgra the global radio

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i need your help to get to the year

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[Music]

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you're listening to fate to black with

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jimmy church on the game changer network

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[Music]

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bespoke radio

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for

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masses

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how you doing how you doing this

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wednesday april 10

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100 days into the new year just

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we are live from a bunker somewhere in

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the middle of beautiful downtown burbank

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california and i would like to welcome

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everybody listening all around the world

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all across the united states

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hither and tether to and fro back and

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forth up and down east and west north

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far and near

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this is fade to black for kjcr the game

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changer network and kgra the planet i am

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your host jimmy church

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what is crackin

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[Music]

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what a great week on the show

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[Music]

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and continuing that tradition of the

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brightest and the best tonight

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ufo researcher and author mj banayas is

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here

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we're going to talk about his new book

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it is called the ufo people

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and i have read it

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and i'm just gonna say this is a book

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for everyone uh whatever

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whatever

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aspect of ufology

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uh you you fall yourself

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uh in uh you fall into i should say

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um this is the book you've got to get

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this book okay it's called the ufo

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people

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and uh we're gonna get into this in

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depth tonight and it's written from a

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perspective uh that

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um i was speaking mj before the show it

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was it's like it's

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i wish i would have written this book

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you know it's it's really that good so

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uh check it out we'll get the links up

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for everybody uh you can certainly go to

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uh his website too and the links are

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right there at jimmychurchradio.com

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and we'll get him up there in twitter

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and you can go and check it out uh i

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believe that the book right now is

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available in kindle and then the full

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release i think is tomorrow the next day

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and uh so you can go and get it right

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now tomorrow night is another fader

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night with open lines all night long

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okay and i'm sure we're going to be

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discussing this book tomorrow night

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it's uh it's a page turner it's really

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really well done follow me on twitter at

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j church radio

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that's what you want to do at jchurst

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radio i'm looking here

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mj just popped up here in twitter let me

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go back

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and uh just uh get this it's uh

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oh man

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you guys tweet too much man i can't

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i cannot keep up with this

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okay well anyway

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mj's up there on twitter too

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uh he's already in the sandbox so you

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can go and follow mj too as well

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okay uh hashtag f2b is the sandbox

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hashtag f2bq is fade to black questions

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you can also email throughout the show

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jimmy jimmychurchradio.com and we do

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have two chat rooms one in spreaker and

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one over at ktra

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the planet all right let's get to the

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breaking news let's get this out of the

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way first

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because today i announced this last

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night and it happened it really did

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the first image of a black hole was

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released today

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the supermassive black hole and its

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shadow are at the center of a galaxy

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known as

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m87

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now in the press release yesterday they

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were talking about sagittarius a

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so maybe that's gonna be next

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okay because in the subtext

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you know a little side note of the press

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release

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uh was a mention of m87 but that's not

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what they said was going to be the

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photograph today they said it was going

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to be sagittarius a but turned out to be

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m87 in the image when you look at it

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you've got the black hole in the middle

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and then it's got a ring of light around

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it and then it's brighter on one side

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it's a very very interesting image

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the galaxy called messier 87 or m87 is

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near the virgo galaxy cluster

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55 million light years from earth the

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supermassive black hole

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has a mass that is about 6.5 billion

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times

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that of our son

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absolutely incredible day not only uh

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for news and for this community but for

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the world and and for everybody here

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living on this planet that is an amazing

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picture i'm looking at it here

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and you know we've seen all of the uh

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the illustrations

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right the artwork

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of black holes over the years but there

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it is

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there is the first image of a black hole

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that is absolutely incredible incredible

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and it makes you wonder what that that

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bright

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right yeah think about that it's not

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what everybody thought too

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all right today

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michael avenatti

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right the attorney

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was the subject

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of a federal warrant

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happened today that resulted in the

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seizure of his private

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jet

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worth about 4.5 million dollars the u.s

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attorney's office confirmed that federal

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agents seized a honda ha-420 twin engine

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jet

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from the santa barbara airport right

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here in southern california at 10 a.m

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this morning

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after a federal judge issued a warrant

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now

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it turns out he's got two jets

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right and apparently

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he was gonna fly today

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there was a flight schedule on his

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behalf and maybe he was gonna surrender

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the jet

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or fly out of the country right

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we don't know

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but the feds jumped in

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before he had a chance to get on the

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plane

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and absolutely just took it they ended

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up flying it to like

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chino or someplace cheeto california i

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think that's where they flew it flew to

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chino and it's being held there by the

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feds they don't know

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if this is

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the closure of his of his tax deal that

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he owes like 18 million dollars in taxes

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i think that's what it is or he made 18

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million dollars and but he hasn't filed

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taxes in 10 years that's for sure and

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he's deposited 38 million dollars in one

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account

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hasn't paid any federal taxes but he did

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uh was able to buy a couple of planes

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michael avenatti now we also don't know

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if he's going to go after his if they're

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going to go after his second plane

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there you go michael avenatti all right

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announced today

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you know i'm a big uh rita and i

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are big tv people big tv people

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and uh whether it's it's you know t

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television series of documentaries or or

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movies

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uh we have a pretty complex setup

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and that's what it has turned into today

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is this a la carte which i enjoy right

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this a la carte way of watching tv

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you're not bound

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uh to one tv service right there's tons

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of them

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well today

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youtube television

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now when you go and buy a smart tv today

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it comes with all of this pre-loaded

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software and then you start spend spend

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spend a lot of people think they're

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cutting the cable right they're cutting

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the cable they're not going to be

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spending that money you know but it's

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not really the case because if you start

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adding up things and you look at what

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your monthly bill is

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well today

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youtube television

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is raising their subscription prices to

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49.99 per month

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that's right

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49.99 per month the google loan company

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announced the price hike in a blog post

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earlier today

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a t recently announced plans to raise

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the price of its own

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directv now which is another

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subscription service right so they've

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raised the prices on that and hulu has

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just raised the price of its live tv

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product by five dollars a month to 45

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bucks a month

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netflix has just raised its prices and

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the market is really really getting

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crowded i mean just get a smart tv start

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poking around and look at all of the

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apps with subscriptions on them right oh

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they're you get them all for free

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but then when you want to watch

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something you have to pay for it right

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ten dollars a month and or up or or more

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so

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going to pay less you're going to get

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commercials right well anyway it doesn't

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matter

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apple just moved into the streaming

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business that was announced last month

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and both disney and warner media are

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planning their own services as well so

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yes it's starting to get very crowded

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and you can top all of that off with

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t-mobile who today announced its new

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t-vision television right get it

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t-mobile t-vision platform

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again another streaming service

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it's nuts

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nuts

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you start adding all of this up and

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you're thinking man i should have just

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kept my cable

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[Laughter]

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just get my cable

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you start poking around and the next

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thing you know you know you got netflix

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and hulu premium and

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and directv

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and amazon and you're paying for all of

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these new movies and it's really strange

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because sometimes directv gets them

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first uh the new movie sometimes it's uh

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amazon amazon's always a couple of bucks

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cheaper one is always first and in front

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of the other one and sometimes one has

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it over the other and you you start

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cracking at those at 19.99

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for a purchase

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and you do that a few times a month what

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you know

284
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right and then

285
00:12:38,069 --> 00:12:35,760
the rentals

286
00:12:39,829 --> 00:12:38,079
699 690 and you're like okay yeah we'll

287
00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:39,839
watch it we'll watch it yeah no big deal

288
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:42,320
we'll watch it and the next thing you

289
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:43,200
know

290
00:12:45,990 --> 00:12:44,399
you're dealing with hundreds and

291
00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:46,000
hundreds and hundreds of dollars per

292
00:12:51,190 --> 00:12:49,600
month and and then go go and purchase uh

293
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:51,200
a tv series

294
00:12:54,790 --> 00:12:53,680
from the past fifty dollars

295
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:54,800
right

296
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:56,000
or

297
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:57,600
it's really funny too because it'll be

298
00:13:01,269 --> 00:13:00,079
50 bucks for the series

299
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,279
or

300
00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:03,600
ten dollars per episode

301
00:13:08,790 --> 00:13:06,800
just like

302
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:08,800
all right yeah it's a crowded market

303
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:11,360
okay other big news today

304
00:13:16,949 --> 00:13:14,320
i don't know if it went down actually it

305
00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:16,959
was supposed to i didn't get a chance

306
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:19,839
to check this out right before the show

307
00:13:22,790 --> 00:13:21,760
so let me see if it actually happened

308
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:22,800
yet

309
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:28,389
okay i don't see it here

310
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:29,600
i thought the announcement would have

311
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:31,040
happened already

312
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:34,720
falcon x uh the heavy the falcon heavy

313
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:37,519
spacex's falcon heavy the most powerful

314
00:13:42,389 --> 00:13:40,320
launch vehicle in the world today

315
00:13:45,910 --> 00:13:42,399
was going to make its first commercial

316
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:45,920
flight between 6 30 and 8 30 pm eastern

317
00:13:49,190 --> 00:13:46,959
time

318
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:49,200
uh which that window is passed so i

319
00:13:53,670 --> 00:13:51,839
don't know if it launched can somebody

320
00:13:56,629 --> 00:13:53,680
somebody give me an update right here in

321
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:56,639
twitter i thought i would get a yes or

322
00:14:02,949 --> 00:13:59,360
no announcement on the launch

323
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:02,959
and it was gonna carry up the arab sat

324
00:14:09,110 --> 00:14:05,040
6a communication satellite into

325
00:14:11,670 --> 00:14:09,120
geostationary orbit over the middle east

326
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,680
and i

327
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:13,440
it's called live radio

328
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:16,079
i don't have i don't have the update so

329
00:14:21,110 --> 00:14:19,680
was it postponed it was scrubbed

330
00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:21,120
ah

331
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:22,959
according to frankie four fingers he

332
00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:26,000
says it's scubbed but i'm assuming okay

333
00:14:30,310 --> 00:14:28,480
the launch is tomorrow now

334
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:30,320
falcon did not launch okay there you go

335
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:31,839
that's why it wasn't announced well you

336
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:33,040
would think that they would announce the

337
00:14:38,230 --> 00:14:37,040
postponement okay cancel there you go

338
00:14:41,189 --> 00:14:38,240
don't forget

339
00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:41,199
to get the surfer music streaming app

340
00:14:47,430 --> 00:14:43,360
s-u-r-f-r

341
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:48,949
i love doing this because it's right

342
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:51,600
here on my phone there it is the surfer

343
00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:54,079
music streaming app get it download it

344
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:56,000
you don't have to give up

345
00:15:01,509 --> 00:14:58,480
category alternative love

346
00:15:04,629 --> 00:15:01,519
caliente christian rock country edm they

347
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:04,639
got edm for all of you edm fans out

348
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:07,279
there hip hop jazz oldies pop

349
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:08,720
rave rock

350
00:15:13,750 --> 00:15:10,880
they got raga

351
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:13,760
that's right they've got raga r b

352
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:16,959
it's all there 60s 70s 80s 90s 2000s

353
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:18,079
right there

354
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:22,160
okay get the surfer music streaming app

355
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:24,079
super fun super easy super cool you

356
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:26,399
don't give up any of your privacy

357
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:28,079
your email nothing like that all you're

358
00:15:31,949 --> 00:15:30,399
gonna do is download it click on the

359
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:31,959
banners over at

360
00:15:35,430 --> 00:15:34,160
jimmychurchradio.com coming up next

361
00:15:37,350 --> 00:15:35,440
month

362
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:37,360
that's right it i can't believe it it's

363
00:15:41,590 --> 00:15:39,040
april 10th coming up next month is

364
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:41,600
contact in the desert may 31st through

365
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:43,839
june 3rd in indian wells palm springs

366
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:45,440
california at the renaissance indian

367
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:48,600
wells resort and spa tickets and info at

368
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:50,720
contactingthedesert.com coming up right

369
00:15:55,509 --> 00:15:53,040
after that is our 2019 seoul tech

370
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:55,519
conference it's over the july 4th

371
00:16:00,550 --> 00:15:58,000
weekend at the beautiful sunrise ranch

372
00:16:02,749 --> 00:16:00,560
in loveland colorado you can sign up for

373
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:02,759
tickets and info right now at

374
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:05,040
seoultechgathering.com also head over to

375
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:06,560
facebook

376
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:10,399
and join our soul tech official

377
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,360
facebook page it's really cool and holly

378
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:15,360
marie is going to be doing an ama over

379
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:16,880
there so you've got to go and check that

380
00:16:20,870 --> 00:16:18,880
out all right don't forget to subscribe

381
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:20,880
to our podcast i do have an announcement

382
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:25,920
to make um the podcast uh from here out

383
00:16:30,470 --> 00:16:27,839
uh starting today actually commercial

384
00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:30,480
free uh editing uh the commercials out

385
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:32,000
for the podcast

386
00:16:35,829 --> 00:16:34,160
so for all of you out there that have

387
00:16:37,030 --> 00:16:35,839
been enjoying the podcast for the last

388
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,040
five years

389
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:40,000
uh those will now be commercial free

390
00:16:45,189 --> 00:16:42,800
as of today so yesterday's episode on

391
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:45,199
the podcast is commercial free

392
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:46,399
and uh

393
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:48,240
we're going to be doing sort of the same

394
00:16:54,069 --> 00:16:51,279
thing over on youtube as well well this

395
00:16:55,670 --> 00:16:54,079
is a live show this is a live stream

396
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:55,680
commercials are here

397
00:16:59,030 --> 00:16:56,959
that's right

398
00:17:00,949 --> 00:16:59,040
okay uh

399
00:17:03,269 --> 00:17:00,959
you can become a fader not over in our

400
00:17:05,669 --> 00:17:03,279
membership section on the site

401
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:05,679
just go to jimmychurchradio.com and sign

402
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:07,520
up right there

403
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:10,319
and if you become a game changer which

404
00:17:15,750 --> 00:17:12,959
is there you get those shirts and hats

405
00:17:18,069 --> 00:17:15,760
autographed you get the

406
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:18,079
bunker cam you get a private email to me

407
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:19,280
and you get

408
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:23,520
access to all of our archives

409
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:26,880
commercial free downloadable mp3s

410
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,799
optimized audio crystal clear amazing

411
00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:32,640
okay so you can do all of that in our

412
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,360
membership section of the site let's get

413
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,120
this show cracking happy birthday to

414
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:39,120
today now this is weird this is the

415
00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:40,480
universe

416
00:17:45,990 --> 00:17:44,160
you don't think it's an electric

417
00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:46,000
universe if you don't think that there

418
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:48,880
is something going on

419
00:17:54,230 --> 00:17:50,480
yesterday

420
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:54,240
i happened to mention in my opening rant

421
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:56,400
the movie ai

422
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,799
right i i did in my rant and i was

423
00:18:02,070 --> 00:18:00,240
talking about light beings i was talking

424
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:02,080
about the end of the movie and and how

425
00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:04,640
e.t was represented and i mentioned

426
00:18:09,590 --> 00:18:07,520
haley joel osment i couldn't remember

427
00:18:11,029 --> 00:18:09,600
his name yesterday but i did remember

428
00:18:12,789 --> 00:18:11,039
his name eventually but anyway i

429
00:18:15,110 --> 00:18:12,799
mentioned him yesterday

430
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:15,120
and just popped in my head

431
00:18:18,470 --> 00:18:16,400
today

432
00:18:20,950 --> 00:18:18,480
it's his birthday

433
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:20,960
happy birthday haley joel osman how

434
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:22,240
crazy is that

435
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:26,080
he is 30 years old did you see

436
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:29,600
what was that was uh

437
00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:32,960
uh was that the new version of the

438
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:34,799
x-files

439
00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:38,240
what uh he was in something with mulder

440
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:41,440
and scully or was that black mirror

441
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:43,600
the one where the ai the robots were

442
00:18:47,990 --> 00:18:46,480
taking over i think that was hayley

443
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:48,000
all right anyway

444
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:52,080
on this day in history 1970 otd

445
00:18:57,750 --> 00:18:54,799
paul mccartney announces the breakup of

446
00:18:59,070 --> 00:18:57,760
the beatles officially on this day april

447
00:19:02,150 --> 00:18:59,080
10th

448
00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:02,160
1970. here's your fader fact

449
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:04,640
all right here's your fader fact

450
00:19:09,270 --> 00:19:07,200
the himalayan honeybee i want you to

451
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:09,280
listen to me

452
00:19:14,470 --> 00:19:11,440
the himalayan honeybee

453
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:14,480
the largest the biggest

454
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:17,600
of all of the honeybees

455
00:19:22,830 --> 00:19:21,679
makes a hallucinogenic honey

456
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:22,840
it

457
00:19:30,470 --> 00:19:27,840
himalayan honeybee is the only one that

458
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:30,480
knows about it well now you do

459
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:33,200
but so do the locals

460
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:34,400
that's right

461
00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:36,799
well let's just say

462
00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:38,720
that they know what it is

463
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:40,960
and they like to

464
00:19:45,990 --> 00:19:43,280
collect it

465
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:46,000
there you go

466
00:19:50,390 --> 00:19:47,280
that's a fact

467
00:19:52,549 --> 00:19:50,400
i you didn't know that did you

468
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,559
you didn't know that the himalayan

469
00:19:57,990 --> 00:19:54,960
honeybee all right tonight ufo

470
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:58,000
researcher author mj banayas is here

471
00:20:01,990 --> 00:19:59,840
and uh we're going to be talking about

472
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:02,000
his new book and it is called the ufo

473
00:20:05,190 --> 00:20:03,280
people

474
00:20:07,029 --> 00:20:05,200
and uh we're going to be discussing this

475
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:07,039
uh throughout the show tonight it's an

476
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:09,200
incredible book and we'll get the links

477
00:20:13,909 --> 00:20:11,360
up right now for it

478
00:20:15,549 --> 00:20:13,919
in uh twitter and you can of course

479
00:20:17,190 --> 00:20:15,559
click on the links over at

480
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:17,200
jimmychurchradio.com

481
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:19,520
and tara obscura and it'll take you

482
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:20,640
straight there and you can get the book

483
00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:23,760
there too as well okay now tomorrow

484
00:20:29,750 --> 00:20:27,840
night is open lines all night long okay

485
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:29,760
all right it's fader night let me hit

486
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:32,159
this coffee and i'm excited about the

487
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:39,350
a couple of things um and we're going to

488
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:42,320
be touching upon these subjects tonight

489
00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:44,080
with mj but

490
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:46,799
the book is called the ufo people and as

491
00:20:51,669 --> 00:20:49,520
i have been reading it over uh the last

492
00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:51,679
week or so

493
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:55,360
a lot of uh memories came flooding back

494
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,240
and

495
00:21:02,230 --> 00:20:59,200
one of the well the the

496
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:02,240
the idea for the book is us right this

497
00:21:08,789 --> 00:21:06,159
this ufo community of of ours that's

498
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:08,799
that's the the foundation of the book

499
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:12,320
but it just got got me thinking on so

500
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:14,320
many different aspects of it

501
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:16,559
of what this community is

502
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:17,919
and

503
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:18,799
wow

504
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:21,120
i want to say this

505
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:22,320
the

506
00:21:33,430 --> 00:21:30,240
um is that it's a very open community

507
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:33,440
and that you are able to express and

508
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:35,760
talk about things that you would never

509
00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:37,520
ever talk about

510
00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:39,520
at work

511
00:21:44,950 --> 00:21:42,400
with your family maybe right with your

512
00:21:46,630 --> 00:21:44,960
friends but you can go to a conference

513
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:46,640
or you can go to a show like this or you

514
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:49,600
can hang out in the sandbox or the chat

515
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,440
rooms and i've seen it i've seen it it's

516
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:53,280
going to happen tonight

517
00:21:56,789 --> 00:21:55,200
people are just going to talk and

518
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:56,799
they're going to open up

519
00:22:02,630 --> 00:21:59,440
and that is one of the the the

520
00:22:04,470 --> 00:22:02,640
the beautiful aspects

521
00:22:05,830 --> 00:22:04,480
of us

522
00:22:07,110 --> 00:22:05,840
and there's

523
00:22:09,750 --> 00:22:07,120
another

524
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:09,760
there's a couple of myths about the ufo

525
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:12,799
community that i don't necessarily agree

526
00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:13,760
with

527
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:16,559
and one of them and i'm going to talk

528
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:18,400
about this tonight with mj

529
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:20,880
one of them is that this is

530
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:23,039
a white man's

531
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:25,520
boys club kind of thing

532
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:28,720
and i i don't that that's i think that's

533
00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:30,720
old school talk

534
00:22:34,230 --> 00:22:32,720
i think that is from the past or people

535
00:22:35,990 --> 00:22:34,240
that have never been a part of the

536
00:22:37,350 --> 00:22:36,000
community they make this observation

537
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:37,360
from the outside

538
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:38,880
i think it could be farther from the

539
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:39,760
truth

540
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:42,559
there's that part of it in that and also

541
00:22:48,789 --> 00:22:44,960
that it's there's a lot it's an older

542
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:48,799
crowd it's an older generation and i i

543
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:51,840
um and although mj doesn't necessarily

544
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:54,799
uh address this in the book about ages

545
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:56,400
or race or

546
00:23:01,590 --> 00:22:59,679
or or gender or anything like that but

547
00:23:03,909 --> 00:23:01,600
that that's what this community is it's

548
00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:03,919
a very open i've said it so many times

549
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:06,640
before it's like a rainbow coalition

550
00:23:10,390 --> 00:23:08,400
where we can just all get together

551
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:10,400
because when i look around

552
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:13,360
sometimes i feel like i'm the only guy

553
00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:14,799
in the room

554
00:23:18,549 --> 00:23:15,679
right

555
00:23:22,149 --> 00:23:18,559
so many women represented sometimes i

556
00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:22,159
feel like i'm the oldest guy in the room

557
00:23:25,510 --> 00:23:24,400
i really do because i can look around

558
00:23:27,430 --> 00:23:25,520
and i can

559
00:23:29,830 --> 00:23:27,440
i'm like oh somebody older than me right

560
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:29,840
over there this is great

561
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:30,960
because

562
00:23:36,149 --> 00:23:33,600
at um at every conference that i speak

563
00:23:37,029 --> 00:23:36,159
at and if you've ever had the privilege

564
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:37,039
uh

565
00:23:45,029 --> 00:23:42,559
and and attend one

566
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:45,039
and and and then you you know you get

567
00:23:47,669 --> 00:23:46,640
you know you're out there and you see

568
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:47,679
what i do

569
00:23:52,950 --> 00:23:50,720
i'll always call out the oldest and the

570
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,960
youngest in the audience

571
00:23:56,789 --> 00:23:54,720
and i'll give them shirts

572
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:56,799
and i'm usually

573
00:24:01,510 --> 00:24:00,720
quite surprised because i have hit

574
00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:01,520
uh

575
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:04,960
i think one time didn't we rita

576
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:07,520
didn't we i have to ask rita this i

577
00:24:13,110 --> 00:24:10,240
think we we we met a lady

578
00:24:16,070 --> 00:24:13,120
uh that drove a long ways with her

579
00:24:18,310 --> 00:24:16,080
daughter and she was a hundred years old

580
00:24:19,269 --> 00:24:18,320
it was a hundred

581
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:19,279
and

582
00:24:26,870 --> 00:24:23,440
i'm just shocked where

583
00:24:29,669 --> 00:24:26,880
i'll have uh kids five

584
00:24:32,149 --> 00:24:29,679
six seven years old and sometimes many

585
00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:32,159
of them and and we've got to have a a

586
00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:35,520
little discussion as to who is younger

587
00:24:38,789 --> 00:24:37,360
right and i will always take those

588
00:24:42,310 --> 00:24:38,799
pictures

589
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:42,320
and that's that's what i see i see such

590
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:44,000
a young

591
00:24:47,430 --> 00:24:45,200
uh

592
00:24:49,590 --> 00:24:47,440
average age these days

593
00:24:51,669 --> 00:24:49,600
right and i think that everybody is

594
00:24:53,830 --> 00:24:51,679
represented i i see

595
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:53,840
everybody from all around the planet and

596
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:56,080
and different countries and

597
00:24:59,590 --> 00:24:58,000
and from different backgrounds and you

598
00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,600
would just never guess and that's where

599
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:01,120
we are today

600
00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:04,720
it is totally different and the reason

601
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:07,360
why i think that is

602
00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:10,400
is because in the years past in the 50s

603
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:12,640
in the 60s in the 70s

604
00:25:15,990 --> 00:25:14,960
it was a different way to research

605
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:16,000
and

606
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:19,520
those were young people at one point

607
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:21,919
that those crowds got older they we

608
00:25:26,870 --> 00:25:24,960
still stayed with ufology but we kind of

609
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:26,880
skipped a generation

610
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:30,240
today and certainly through the

611
00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:33,440
1990s and 2000s uh leading up to now

612
00:25:37,590 --> 00:25:35,679
this is now 2019

613
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:37,600
is that uh

614
00:25:41,669 --> 00:25:39,440
with with science

615
00:25:43,430 --> 00:25:41,679
and the availability of information out

616
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:43,440
there those that were interested in the

617
00:25:47,909 --> 00:25:45,679
ufo subject now know more about science

618
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:47,919
and space and galaxy and the milky way

619
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:50,480
in the universe and and how many planets

620
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:52,400
and stars are out there and

621
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,159
and the the question of alien life uh uh

622
00:26:00,310 --> 00:25:58,080
you know more life being out there is

623
00:26:01,269 --> 00:26:00,320
it's it's it's 100 percent of course

624
00:26:02,230 --> 00:26:01,279
there is

625
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:02,240
so

626
00:26:09,669 --> 00:26:05,360
that that's what is causing

627
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:09,679
this brand new influx into our community

628
00:26:14,390 --> 00:26:11,200
and that's that's the way that i see it

629
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:14,400
today it's not like it was before

630
00:26:21,110 --> 00:26:17,840
i remember reading and i i i was reading

631
00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:21,120
this is uh in the late 90s

632
00:26:24,870 --> 00:26:22,880
i was reading about different ufo

633
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:24,880
conferences and

634
00:26:28,070 --> 00:26:26,159
um

635
00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:28,080
you know newspaper articles and articles

636
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:30,400
about this and things um and and a

637
00:26:34,070 --> 00:26:31,840
couple of videos where they're attending

638
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:34,080
these conferences that were flooded with

639
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:37,039
with gray hairs right blue hairs

640
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:38,880
and you know that that's what was

641
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,039
attending these conferences and that the

642
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:43,600
the attendings and the

643
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:45,760
was was down and was low

644
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:47,919
that's not the case today

645
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:50,080
there are ufo conferences everywhere

646
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:51,840
contact in the desert this year is going

647
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:54,159
to have 7 000

648
00:27:02,950 --> 00:26:59,840
attendees conscious life expo 15 000

649
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:02,960
think about that alien con another chuck

650
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:05,200
in another i've heard different numbers

651
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:07,039
there seven thousand ten thousand

652
00:27:10,870 --> 00:27:09,120
fifteen thousand and that's going down

653
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:10,880
here at the los angeles convention

654
00:27:15,590 --> 00:27:13,600
center here in a couple of months so

655
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,600
it's not that kind of party anymore and

656
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,360
that's what this is about that's what

657
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:19,200
this community is and that's what this

658
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:21,919
book is about it's an amazing book so

659
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:23,200
we're going to talk about all of that

660
00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:25,520
our guest tonight is mj banayas i am

661
00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:27,679
your host jimmy church the book is

662
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:30,559
called the ufo people i'll be right back

663
00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:32,000
after this short break with tonight's

664
00:27:35,430 --> 00:27:32,840
guest

665
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:35,440
mj i'm your host jimmy church follow me

666
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:37,440
on twitter at j church radio we'll be

667
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:38,960
right back after this short break stay

668
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:47,269
welcome back fade to black i'm your host

669
00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:52,950
tonight

670
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:54,559
mj binayas

671
00:28:01,830 --> 00:27:56,720
tomorrow night is

672
00:28:03,750 --> 00:28:01,840
vader night open lines all night long

673
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:03,760
and i just love hanging out with all of

674
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:04,799
you

675
00:28:07,750 --> 00:28:06,559
it's great that's tomorrow night tonight

676
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:07,760
it's mj

677
00:28:13,590 --> 00:28:10,640
he's an educator he's an author his blog

678
00:28:15,830 --> 00:28:13,600
tara obscura which we read

679
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:15,840
avidly around here at fade to black by

680
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:17,039
the way

681
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:18,960
critically examines how philosophy and

682
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:21,360
culture affect society's understanding

683
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:24,159
of anomalous phenomena including ufos he

684
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:25,840
has been interviewed on many podcasts

685
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:27,360
and radio shows and his work has been

686
00:28:30,470 --> 00:28:29,360
featured in forty and times magazine

687
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:30,480
fate magazine

688
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:33,840
and in the book ufos reframing the

689
00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:36,320
debate mj is a regular contributor to

690
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:38,399
the website mysterious universe and

691
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:40,480
hosts his own youtube channel his first

692
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:43,039
book the ufo people akira's culture

693
00:28:47,029 --> 00:28:45,279
is coming out tomorrow i believe it may

694
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:47,039
be the next day we've got the links up

695
00:28:53,269 --> 00:28:49,840
there now and he lives up in canada with

696
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:53,279
his wife two children and a massive cat

697
00:28:57,029 --> 00:28:54,640
tonight we're going to talk about that

698
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:57,039
new book the ufo people and the current

699
00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:00,159
state of our ufo community his website

700
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:02,559
is tara obscura.net and i would like to

701
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:03,760
welcome for the first time to fade to

702
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:06,720
black m.j binayas mj good evening how

703
00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:07,760
are you

704
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:09,760
um i'm i'm honored to be here i'm

705
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:11,120
wonderful thank you so much for having

706
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:13,120
me on the show man you know this is the

707
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,080
deal and i love doing this mj you're a

708
00:29:22,710 --> 00:29:18,640
first time guest which means you get the

709
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:22,720
first time guest disclaimer

710
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:23,919
so

711
00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:25,440
which is

712
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:27,360
mj it's just you and i sitting on my

713
00:29:32,230 --> 00:29:29,840
couch having a conversation

714
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,240
and where that conversation starts it

715
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:34,399
starts where it ends it ends but we're

716
00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:36,080
gonna end as friends

717
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:38,480
right that's it are you ready to go

718
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:40,559
it sounds amazing i'm looking forward to

719
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:41,919
it now the next time you come on the

720
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:43,279
show you don't get the first time guest

721
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:45,840
disclaimer so you know just just enjoy

722
00:29:48,389 --> 00:29:47,200
it okay

723
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:48,399
so

724
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:52,240
let's actually let's actually um start

725
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:54,960
here because we have first off

726
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:57,840
we have a a very large canadian audience

727
00:30:01,190 --> 00:29:59,600
which you know you know about this we

728
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:01,200
have a very large canadian audience

729
00:30:05,590 --> 00:30:02,799
there's a lot of stuff

730
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:05,600
that goes on uh north of the united

731
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:08,320
states the united states does not have

732
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:11,840
uh you know a moratorium on all things

733
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:14,480
ufo although it seems that way sometimes

734
00:30:18,710 --> 00:30:16,480
to the rest of the world but that's not

735
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,720
the case a lot of stuff goes on up there

736
00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:20,480
and a lot of stuff goes on in your

737
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:21,679
neighborhood

738
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:22,559
now

739
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:23,520
is

740
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:28,320
fascination started because things were

741
00:30:32,789 --> 00:30:30,399
always going around

742
00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:32,799
uh you up in the skies and your friends

743
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:34,480
and everything else what what got you

744
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:38,080
started into this um well first of all i

745
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:40,399
i've actually i'm one of those weird ufo

746
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:42,480
people that's never actually seen a ufo

747
00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:45,440
so i'm i'm i'm in a very select and

748
00:30:51,110 --> 00:30:48,399
small grouping um i i have to be honest

749
00:30:54,230 --> 00:30:51,120
winnipeg where i live as well as sort of

750
00:30:56,149 --> 00:30:54,240
my surrounding area is generally a weird

751
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:56,159
place we do have a lot of sort of

752
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,159
paranormal activity happening there's a

753
00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:00,080
lot of haunted locations we do have our

754
00:31:05,750 --> 00:31:02,720
fair share of cryptids that are sort of

755
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:05,760
seen around the the forests um and we do

756
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:07,440
have a fair share of ufo sightings i was

757
00:31:11,669 --> 00:31:09,039
a mufon field investigator for a while

758
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:11,679
so i definitely was um sort of privy to

759
00:31:16,389 --> 00:31:14,320
a lot of that um but i believe my

760
00:31:19,430 --> 00:31:16,399
personal interest began i think when i

761
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:19,440
was a kid my parents you know when i was

762
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:21,279
quite young allowed me to watch you know

763
00:31:24,549 --> 00:31:22,720
television i probably shouldn't have i

764
00:31:26,549 --> 00:31:24,559
was watching x-files in the outer limits

765
00:31:29,029 --> 00:31:26,559
and um you know all those sort of

766
00:31:31,269 --> 00:31:29,039
strange paranormal ufological shows all

767
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:31,279
those documentaries on uh on all the

768
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:32,480
like you know science channel and

769
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:34,640
history channel and all that um and like

770
00:31:39,509 --> 00:31:36,640
you know they they raised a really

771
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,519
messed up kid um so you know good on

772
00:31:44,149 --> 00:31:41,039
them but that's kind of where it all

773
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:44,159
started for me um just i think how most

774
00:31:48,389 --> 00:31:45,519
kids get started you sort of have a

775
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,399
weird childhood and weird upbringing um

776
00:31:54,470 --> 00:31:50,880
and then you just kind of fall into it i

777
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:54,480
suppose well okay now let's let's that's

778
00:31:58,070 --> 00:31:56,559
that's a good place to start

779
00:32:00,789 --> 00:31:58,080
the

780
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,799
your approach to things uh okay this

781
00:32:04,549 --> 00:32:02,880
book is written about the community and

782
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:04,559
some of the uh

783
00:32:09,590 --> 00:32:07,440
some of the personalities that are

784
00:32:11,190 --> 00:32:09,600
inside and outside of of of this

785
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:11,200
community and you wrote it from that

786
00:32:15,350 --> 00:32:12,559
perspective

787
00:32:17,350 --> 00:32:15,360
but there's also a pretty cool way that

788
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:17,360
you start the book off

789
00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:18,720
in that

790
00:32:25,190 --> 00:32:20,240
you

791
00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:25,200
few things to happen and i would too as

792
00:32:31,830 --> 00:32:28,080
well but you also mentioned in the book

793
00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:31,840
um and i i just want you to explain this

794
00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:34,960
that you had already been investigating

795
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:38,080
ufos when you went to mufon that you had

796
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:39,360
already had

797
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:40,399
cases

798
00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:41,760
and and

799
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:44,399
situations that were handed to you

800
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:46,399
and that you were already checking out

801
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:47,840
explain that

802
00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:50,240
were you some independent investigator

803
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:51,919
before mufon

804
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:55,120
um sure yeah so when i was in um when i

805
00:32:59,909 --> 00:32:57,600
was in university um a lot of my

806
00:33:02,310 --> 00:32:59,919
university work based around

807
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:02,320
cultural studies and and theory so i was

808
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:04,240
really interested in subcultures in

809
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:06,399
particular and how communities form

810
00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:09,440
around like certain ideas so if you look

811
00:33:12,149 --> 00:33:10,880
at ufos for example you know there's

812
00:33:15,029 --> 00:33:12,159
definitely a ufo community that sort of

813
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:15,039
hovers around this ufo question um when

814
00:33:19,029 --> 00:33:17,279
i left university i you know i sort of

815
00:33:20,149 --> 00:33:19,039
got married got a job you know did all

816
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,159
that

817
00:33:24,870 --> 00:33:22,399
and there was a temporary sort of period

818
00:33:27,909 --> 00:33:24,880
where i met up with some local

819
00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:27,919
paranormal investigators um and i began

820
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:29,600
working with them i wasn't really sort

821
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:31,120
of doing a lot of investigations but

822
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:32,880
more of sort of helping them with email

823
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:33,919
and their website and just doing the

824
00:33:36,070 --> 00:33:34,880
more technical stuff because i really

825
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:36,080
wanted to get to know them i really

826
00:33:40,549 --> 00:33:38,000
wanted to get to know them as people and

827
00:33:42,230 --> 00:33:40,559
why they were going to people's houses

828
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:42,240
in the middle of the night and looking

829
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:44,080
for ghosts right

830
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:47,440
and and they got a case that was emailed

831
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:49,279
in uh about a

832
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:51,440
sort of an alien abduction case um and

833
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:53,039
then what started to happen was a few

834
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,120
more cases came in in regards to ufo

835
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:57,200
sightings and and no one really like the

836
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,799
people who are sending them in didn't

837
00:34:02,789 --> 00:34:00,480
know what to do with them you know this

838
00:34:04,470 --> 00:34:02,799
is a paranormal group so we'll send it

839
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:04,480
to you i guess and it's an abduction

840
00:34:09,510 --> 00:34:07,279
case or it's a ufo case or it's a

841
00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:09,520
you know yeah ufo sighting case

842
00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:11,040
so i started to kind of deal with them

843
00:34:14,230 --> 00:34:12,639
myself because the paranormal group

844
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:14,240
wasn't really interested they were more

845
00:34:17,909 --> 00:34:16,240
interested in ghost hunting

846
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:17,919
and and for me this was something a

847
00:34:22,869 --> 00:34:20,720
little more you know my speed um so i

848
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:22,879
picked up a few cases and i got in touch

849
00:34:27,109 --> 00:34:25,359
with another local ufo investigator

850
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:27,119
researcher and an author named chris

851
00:34:31,109 --> 00:34:29,280
rutkowski who who lives in winnipeg he's

852
00:34:33,109 --> 00:34:31,119
written several books on ufos and we

853
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,119
started kind of working together and i

854
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:35,520
started writing about um some of my

855
00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:37,679
cases and my experiences sort of being

856
00:34:41,829 --> 00:34:39,520
with these different sort of

857
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:41,839
experiencers and witnesses

858
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:44,000
um and i wrote my own blog and then

859
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:45,359
eventually i sort of realized i had to

860
00:34:49,750 --> 00:34:47,599
get my hands really dirty um

861
00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:49,760
being an armchair researcher was fine

862
00:34:53,349 --> 00:34:51,760
but i needed to kind of get into the

863
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:53,359
field um

864
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:55,280
and so i decided to become a mufon field

865
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:56,879
investigator and

866
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:58,400
sort of it kind of took off from there i

867
00:35:01,829 --> 00:34:59,839
was a mufon field investigator for about

868
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:01,839
two and a half years um you know did

869
00:35:06,069 --> 00:35:04,000
tons and tons of sighting reports um

870
00:35:08,870 --> 00:35:06,079
looked at a lot of star charts and and

871
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:08,880
maps and and then pictures of venus um

872
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:11,040
and um it sort of took off from there i

873
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:13,599
suppose and i wrote a book about it now

874
00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:16,079
uh you i did i didn't pull up the

875
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:19,280
specific quote but there's a line in it

876
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:22,320
that i really enjoyed when you said

877
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:24,960
uh when you when you joined mufon you

878
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:25,680
were

879
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:27,200
expecting

880
00:35:31,349 --> 00:35:28,240
you know

881
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:31,359
the grandiose things right the sightings

882
00:35:36,150 --> 00:35:33,280
maybe you were gonna get abducted right

883
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:36,160
i don't you know that that uh

884
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:38,160
you were excited about everything and

885
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:40,560
and it turned out to be well it's a lot

886
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:43,040
of work but that didn't happen did it

887
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:45,440
no um yeah the i talk about how i sort

888
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:47,440
of you know i got my move on field

889
00:35:51,589 --> 00:35:49,680
investigators id badge or whatever it

890
00:35:53,589 --> 00:35:51,599
was and i was like this is the coolest

891
00:35:55,109 --> 00:35:53,599
thing in the universe and you know in

892
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:55,119
reality it is like the least coolest

893
00:35:58,870 --> 00:35:57,359
thing in the universe but um to me at

894
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:58,880
the time it was like this is the coolest

895
00:36:02,710 --> 00:36:00,320
thing and i pictured myself sort of you

896
00:36:05,190 --> 00:36:02,720
know dressed as fox mulder in my toyota

897
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:05,200
camry ripping down some highway chasing

898
00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:07,760
some flying saucer um and obviously that

899
00:36:13,510 --> 00:36:11,040
that never happened um it's it's

900
00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:13,520
it's it is you know what the way the the

901
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:14,960
best way to describe

902
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:17,440
you ufo sort of field investigation is

903
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:19,920
it's very tedious um you deal with these

904
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:21,839
citing reports and then you have to

905
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:24,000
collect a whole bunch of data from from

906
00:36:29,990 --> 00:36:27,040
the witnesses from you know direction to

907
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:30,000
altitude to apparent size to where they

908
00:36:33,910 --> 00:36:32,560
were you need to have like coordinates

909
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:33,920
longitudinal attitude and you basically

910
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:35,839
kind of need to re piece this picture

911
00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:39,520
together um and then you look at like

912
00:36:44,550 --> 00:36:42,640
um you know flight data you look at

913
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:44,560
star charts where venus was where the

914
00:36:47,829 --> 00:36:45,839
international space station was like it

915
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:47,839
would literally take tons and tons of

916
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:49,680
hours to figure out that what they saw

917
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:51,280
was sort of you know something very

918
00:36:55,829 --> 00:36:52,320
mosaic

919
00:36:58,470 --> 00:36:55,839
um but what i loved about it um wasn't

920
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:58,480
so much the the investigation and and

921
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:59,839
doing all that work what i loved about

922
00:37:04,150 --> 00:37:01,680
it was meeting the people and and

923
00:37:07,430 --> 00:37:04,160
interviewing them and speaking to them

924
00:37:09,109 --> 00:37:07,440
um because ufo witnesses are our

925
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:09,119
incredibly interesting people and they

926
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:12,000
come from all different walks of life um

927
00:37:16,550 --> 00:37:14,480
and they're they're all sort of drawn

928
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:16,560
together by this phenomenon whatever it

929
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:18,640
is um and and so they're incredibly

930
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:21,280
unique and wonderful and so i love i

931
00:37:25,990 --> 00:37:23,280
loved talking with them and meeting with

932
00:37:28,470 --> 00:37:26,000
them um and that's sort of again what

933
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:28,480
what kind of led me down this path um to

934
00:37:32,470 --> 00:37:30,640
to write a book about them now as you

935
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:32,480
get started to get into the ufo

936
00:37:36,550 --> 00:37:33,760
community

937
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:36,560
um and where you are today certainly you

938
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:39,280
wrote this book and and your blog

939
00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:41,760
definitely uh

940
00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:45,680
uh comments about the state of the union

941
00:37:50,310 --> 00:37:47,920
uh when it's uh it comes to our ufo

942
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:50,320
community today it's all well written

943
00:37:53,829 --> 00:37:51,200
but

944
00:37:56,150 --> 00:37:53,839
uh did you have what was your what was

945
00:37:58,470 --> 00:37:56,160
your thought of what was your perception

946
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:58,480
of what the ufo community was going to

947
00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:59,440
be

948
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:00,960
versus

949
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:04,560
what you have learned today you know

950
00:38:08,950 --> 00:38:06,960
what did you think going in uh versus

951
00:38:11,349 --> 00:38:08,960
where where you are now

952
00:38:14,950 --> 00:38:11,359
wow yeah that's such a good question um

953
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:14,960
i think i started off with

954
00:38:18,470 --> 00:38:17,280
the idea that

955
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:18,480
you know i think i began where kind of

956
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:20,960
most people begin i think i began with

957
00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:23,520
this idea that the entire ufo community

958
00:38:29,589 --> 00:38:26,800
was crazy um and and then

959
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:29,599
you know as i it took me you know four

960
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:31,119
years of research and probably two years

961
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:33,119
of writing to do this book but within

962
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:35,760
that time you know i realized that in

963
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:38,240
fact there's nothing crazy at all about

964
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:40,960
them um you know sure there's sort of

965
00:38:47,109 --> 00:38:44,480
kooky people but generally you know the

966
00:38:49,589 --> 00:38:47,119
vast majority of the ufo community is

967
00:38:51,270 --> 00:38:49,599
incredibly stable incredibly sane and

968
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:51,280
they've just experienced something that

969
00:38:55,589 --> 00:38:53,119
they can't explain or they're people

970
00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:55,599
like me who pursue something that's

971
00:38:59,510 --> 00:38:56,960
unexplainable

972
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:59,520
and nobody has any idea why so it's

973
00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:01,040
definitely changed it's definitely kind

974
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:01,760
of

975
00:39:10,310 --> 00:39:05,760
preconceived

976
00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:10,320
obviously changed the more digging i did

977
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:11,680
and the more research i did and the more

978
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:13,119
people i met

979
00:39:17,349 --> 00:39:14,560
in this community

980
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:17,359
um so i i don't really have like a

981
00:39:21,589 --> 00:39:18,800
better answer than that because i think

982
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:21,599
my my ideas are still changing um even

983
00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:23,040
today and they probably will change

984
00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:24,800
within five years

985
00:39:28,870 --> 00:39:26,560
what what uh

986
00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:28,880
what i think most people find out about

987
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:30,720
the ufo community

988
00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:34,000
is that it's a cross section of us it's

989
00:39:39,430 --> 00:39:35,760
just in general

990
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:39,440
and you can sit and talk about

991
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:42,800
food or sports or politics or religion

992
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:44,960
or families and kids

993
00:39:49,829 --> 00:39:47,599
and have the absolutely most normal

994
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:49,839
conversation uh

995
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:51,359
possible right

996
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:54,079
and then you find out and let it swing

997
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:55,440
into

998
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:57,920
abductions or the ufo phenomenon and

999
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:00,160
then you find out how passionate

1000
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:02,560
these the very very same people that you

1001
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:04,560
would think it like you're saying are

1002
00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:07,680
just normal right completely sane but

1003
00:40:11,829 --> 00:40:10,240
they are this is a very personal thing

1004
00:40:13,589 --> 00:40:11,839
for them isn't it

1005
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,599
it is and i was having this conversation

1006
00:40:18,310 --> 00:40:15,520
with with mark o'connell who wrote the

1007
00:40:20,069 --> 00:40:18,320
book the close encounters man um we were

1008
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:20,079
talking about how

1009
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:21,119
um

1010
00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:23,040
there's this massive sort of silent

1011
00:40:27,349 --> 00:40:25,520
majority um that that don't ever talk

1012
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:27,359
about the things they've seen or the

1013
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:29,280
things that have happened to them um and

1014
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:31,520
and i will often be in social situations

1015
00:40:35,270 --> 00:40:33,760
i'll be at parties whatever where you

1016
00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:35,280
know my wife will

1017
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:36,640
you know we'll be in this we'll be in

1018
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:37,760
this party and my wife will sort of

1019
00:40:40,310 --> 00:40:39,280
start telling people that i wrote a book

1020
00:40:41,829 --> 00:40:40,320
and they started you know they're very

1021
00:40:43,750 --> 00:40:41,839
curious what's your book about no it's

1022
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:43,760
about ufos and suddenly you know people

1023
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:45,760
look at you funny um but then by the end

1024
00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:47,920
of the party you've had maybe eighty

1025
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:49,680
percent of the people speak to you one

1026
00:40:53,109 --> 00:40:51,680
on one telling you their story or

1027
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:53,119
telling you you know this happened to my

1028
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,560
mom or this happened to my dad or this

1029
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:56,400
happened my grandfather or this time my

1030
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:58,480
sister and suddenly you realized that

1031
00:41:01,589 --> 00:40:59,839
all those people who kind of when they

1032
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:01,599
were in the group kind of thought you

1033
00:41:04,950 --> 00:41:03,599
were odd or thought you were strange or

1034
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:04,960
whatever you suddenly realized that the

1035
00:41:08,950 --> 00:41:06,800
vast majority of them have stories to

1036
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:08,960
tell that are ufological in nature or at

1037
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:10,720
least paranormal in nature and then all

1038
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:12,480
of a sudden you're getting their emails

1039
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:14,400
and they want to talk more

1040
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:15,680
so i think that there's this large

1041
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:17,520
number of people who who aren't in the

1042
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:19,760
ufo community but really ought to be and

1043
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:21,119
i think it's a massive chunk of the

1044
00:41:25,589 --> 00:41:23,599
population i think the ufo enigma

1045
00:41:27,589 --> 00:41:25,599
whatever it is is incredibly pervasive i

1046
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:27,599
think it's everywhere and it affects a

1047
00:41:30,470 --> 00:41:29,680
lot of people it just nobody talks about

1048
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:30,480
it

1049
00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:34,400
sort of this cross-section of the

1050
00:41:39,910 --> 00:41:36,960
mainstream population um or sort of the

1051
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:39,920
quote-unquote normal population um it it

1052
00:41:45,270 --> 00:41:42,079
it spans the gap of sort of extreme

1053
00:41:47,430 --> 00:41:45,280
kookiness to just like the most normal

1054
00:41:50,069 --> 00:41:47,440
vanilla guy you've ever met in your life

1055
00:41:52,230 --> 00:41:50,079
now you the book um

1056
00:41:54,390 --> 00:41:52,240
and it's it's interesting how you took

1057
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:54,400
the approach to this the book

1058
00:41:59,030 --> 00:41:55,920
um is

1059
00:42:00,870 --> 00:41:59,040
uh centered around uh

1060
00:42:02,710 --> 00:42:00,880
and i like the way that you wove it

1061
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:02,720
because it's not complete

1062
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:04,880
completely about amy

1063
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:09,520
but it is around you know who she is as

1064
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:11,839
an example of someone in the ufo

1065
00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:15,119
community that you would not expect

1066
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:19,839
to be a an experiencer uh like this

1067
00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:20,960
and

1068
00:42:27,670 --> 00:42:24,960
we're going to do now

1069
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:27,680
and then how this book developed

1070
00:42:31,670 --> 00:42:29,200
around her

1071
00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,680
and and her experiences would turn which

1072
00:42:34,950 --> 00:42:33,040
turned out to be some of the most

1073
00:42:37,030 --> 00:42:34,960
profound and we were talking about that

1074
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:37,040
earlier today some of the most profound

1075
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:39,520
experiences one person could have but

1076
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:42,240
you didn't expect anything uh tell us

1077
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:44,079
about amy

1078
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:46,960
yeah amy um amy i met amy through a

1079
00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:49,520
mufon case report um but we quickly sort

1080
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:52,480
of became fast friends

1081
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:53,839
when

1082
00:43:00,710 --> 00:42:59,119
she was having multiple ufo sightings

1083
00:43:01,589 --> 00:43:00,720
over her property

1084
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:01,599
um

1085
00:43:06,470 --> 00:43:02,880
and

1086
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:06,480
she she didn't approach it from

1087
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:07,920
she didn't approach it as someone who

1088
00:43:11,910 --> 00:43:10,400
who was well versed in in ufo lore right

1089
00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:11,920
she sort of said i'm seeing these things

1090
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:14,240
i have no idea what they are

1091
00:43:18,630 --> 00:43:16,640
um and and and that's it like i i don't

1092
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:18,640
know what else to tell you

1093
00:43:23,510 --> 00:43:20,800
um and

1094
00:43:25,829 --> 00:43:23,520
she's married she lives on a farm yes oh

1095
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:25,839
sure yeah so she lives on a farm uh

1096
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:27,839
she's married she was a former flight

1097
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:30,880
attendant um so so she's well versus

1098
00:43:36,470 --> 00:43:34,560
aircraft um and she's just you know

1099
00:43:38,550 --> 00:43:36,480
just the nicest person you'll ever meet

1100
00:43:40,230 --> 00:43:38,560
um and her husband is incredibly kind as

1101
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:40,240
well he's the kind of guy who would give

1102
00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:42,880
you the shirt off his back um even if he

1103
00:43:47,190 --> 00:43:44,640
didn't ask for it and and they're both

1104
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:47,200
quite skeptical um and and he's the kind

1105
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:48,480
of guy who and you know he would

1106
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:51,200
probably laugh off ufos but you know amy

1107
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:52,800
saw one therefore you know like they

1108
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:54,560
damn all exist now because you know she

1109
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:57,359
says so um so so it was the strange

1110
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:58,720
moment where you had these sort of this

1111
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:01,920
couple really um wanting you to to help

1112
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:03,760
them and but they knew you couldn't and

1113
00:44:07,430 --> 00:44:05,760
everyone knows you can't um but i

1114
00:44:09,430 --> 00:44:07,440
started to sort of collect their stories

1115
00:44:13,030 --> 00:44:09,440
and she's had multiple ufo sightings

1116
00:44:14,790 --> 00:44:13,040
she's seen about six or seven now um i

1117
00:44:16,230 --> 00:44:14,800
talk about four or five in the book

1118
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:16,240
because that's kind of where the number

1119
00:44:21,190 --> 00:44:18,400
ended when the book was published

1120
00:44:23,910 --> 00:44:21,200
as well as sort of the effects of these

1121
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:23,920
sightings on her so so not only

1122
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:26,000
did she sort of witness these craft not

1123
00:44:29,990 --> 00:44:27,839
only is she sort of potentially missing

1124
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:30,000
some time somewhere in there but she's

1125
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:31,599
also had other sort of paranormal

1126
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:34,000
experiences as a result um

1127
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:35,680
just like we sort of hear about in in

1128
00:44:40,150 --> 00:44:37,760
the euphological mythology you know

1129
00:44:42,870 --> 00:44:40,160
there is now some heightened sense of

1130
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:42,880
awareness potentially some ability a

1131
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:44,400
higher intuition

1132
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:46,640
potentially some precognitive ability

1133
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:49,200
sort of having almost prophetic like

1134
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:51,839
dreams in her sleep um as well as

1135
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:53,200
sightings or

1136
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:55,680
sort of communication with um what we

1137
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:57,599
would sort of say in the spirits of the

1138
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:00,560
dead let's say um so so she sort of had

1139
00:45:05,270 --> 00:45:02,400
these this initial sighting and then as

1140
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:05,280
a result um a whole bunch of other stuff

1141
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:06,640
changed in her

1142
00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:10,720
um and and drew out of her some sort of

1143
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:12,640
strange i don't know i don't want to use

1144
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:14,400
the term ability but some sort of

1145
00:45:17,670 --> 00:45:16,319
strange um

1146
00:45:19,349 --> 00:45:17,680
okay abilities the only one i can think

1147
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:19,359
of at this moment no it's the right word

1148
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,119
yeah yeah it's the right word to use

1149
00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:23,359
right yeah right she felt like she was a

1150
00:45:29,670 --> 00:45:27,359
magnet and yeah but there's uh one other

1151
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:29,680
aspect to this that needs to be

1152
00:45:32,950 --> 00:45:31,599
mentioned which is exactly what the book

1153
00:45:35,910 --> 00:45:32,960
title is about

1154
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:35,920
um her husband's an engineer right

1155
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:37,760
they're successful they've got a nice

1156
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:39,839
place they've got you know they they're

1157
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:41,760
they're part of the community

1158
00:45:44,069 --> 00:45:43,119
and

1159
00:45:49,349 --> 00:45:44,079
you

1160
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:49,359
as the ufo people

1161
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:50,800
in the neighborhood

1162
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:52,800
but if you know what i mean but it's

1163
00:45:58,390 --> 00:45:55,359
also for our community

1164
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:58,400
it's refreshing to know that you know

1165
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:01,040
a couple like this is is having these

1166
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:03,680
experiences and they're trying to figure

1167
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:07,040
out what is going on he is supporting

1168
00:46:12,309 --> 00:46:09,440
his wife right he's an engineer he's

1169
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:12,319
successful right but but they've got

1170
00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:14,880
this enigma in their lives that they're

1171
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:17,760
trying to figure out and that is it

1172
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:19,680
is such an interesting thing when it

1173
00:46:24,630 --> 00:46:22,079
comes to uh amy and her husband because

1174
00:46:26,309 --> 00:46:24,640
her experiences are insane

1175
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:26,319
they are and and

1176
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:27,760
this is sort of what what the book sort

1177
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:30,640
of hinges on a lot is is you have

1178
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:32,880
individuals who who kind of live in two

1179
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:34,319
worlds right they have their sort of

1180
00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:36,720
regular everyday life they go to

1181
00:46:39,910 --> 00:46:38,240
starbucks or whatever they you know

1182
00:46:41,990 --> 00:46:39,920
drive their kids to dance class they

1183
00:46:43,109 --> 00:46:42,000
have their jobs they go to work whatever

1184
00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:43,119
and then

1185
00:46:49,910 --> 00:46:47,680
these strange experiences right these

1186
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:49,920
paranormal experiences these anomalous

1187
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:52,240
experiences that make no sense and sort

1188
00:46:57,430 --> 00:46:54,240
of almost act in direct like

1189
00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:57,440
contradiction to their their daily life

1190
00:47:01,670 --> 00:46:59,839
so so they exist in this sort of

1191
00:47:03,910 --> 00:47:01,680
two they live in these two worlds right

1192
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:03,920
there they still need to function in

1193
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:05,760
their regular everyday life you know he

1194
00:47:08,950 --> 00:47:07,359
still needs to go to work she still

1195
00:47:11,510 --> 00:47:08,960
needs to kind of do her thing and go to

1196
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:11,520
work and and and live in her community

1197
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:14,960
but she's also someone who who faced who

1198
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:17,280
has come face to face multiple times

1199
00:47:20,790 --> 00:47:19,200
with with things that should not exist

1200
00:47:22,309 --> 00:47:20,800
or things that ought not to exist

1201
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:22,319
according to mainstream culture or

1202
00:47:27,270 --> 00:47:24,720
according to daily life um so they sort

1203
00:47:30,630 --> 00:47:27,280
of exist in this dual realm right this

1204
00:47:31,510 --> 00:47:30,640
this sort of um this mythological yet

1205
00:47:33,510 --> 00:47:31,520
real

1206
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:33,520
existence it's that's sort of what the

1207
00:47:36,069 --> 00:47:34,880
book sort of

1208
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,079
tries to

1209
00:47:39,670 --> 00:47:38,400
extrapolate on i suppose now uh we're

1210
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:39,680
gonna head towards a break right here

1211
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:41,520
i'm gonna ask you uh two direct

1212
00:47:46,710 --> 00:47:44,400
questions uh that you can answer quickly

1213
00:47:48,470 --> 00:47:46,720
she starts off uh she she writes a

1214
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:48,480
segment in the book and she starts off

1215
00:47:54,550 --> 00:47:51,200
with a very simple sentence i believe

1216
00:47:58,150 --> 00:47:54,560
ufos are real or i believe in ufos right

1217
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:58,160
do do you mj

1218
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:00,240
do i believe that people see strangers

1219
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:04,079
no do you believe that ufos are real

1220
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:07,520
yes i do okay next question

1221
00:48:12,150 --> 00:48:09,040
the uh because

1222
00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:12,160
there's a method to my madness mj okay

1223
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:15,200
so uh and she says something else uh

1224
00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:17,200
she's got a lot of evidence and uh and

1225
00:48:20,550 --> 00:48:19,440
photographs have you seen those

1226
00:48:22,150 --> 00:48:20,560
i have

1227
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:22,160
and

1228
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:25,280
oh um i i state in the book kind of the

1229
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:27,440
photographs contain nothing that is

1230
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:29,760
usable that would sort of provide

1231
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:30,559
um

1232
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:33,040
there there it literally dots in the sky

1233
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:35,599
in a giant blue sky i wish it was

1234
00:48:39,829 --> 00:48:37,760
something more i've tried zooming in

1235
00:48:41,670 --> 00:48:39,839
i've tried every single photo technique

1236
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:41,680
to try and pull data out of those things

1237
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:44,400
but unfortunately the photos are just

1238
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:47,599
too mundane yeah because she she tells

1239
00:48:50,549 --> 00:48:49,200
this story

1240
00:48:53,750 --> 00:48:50,559
uh

1241
00:48:56,150 --> 00:48:53,760
about this sighting and she's taking on

1242
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,160
her phone to

1243
00:49:01,829 --> 00:48:58,800
uh to take pictures and this craft is

1244
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:01,839
like getting ready to knock her over

1245
00:49:04,630 --> 00:49:03,760
it's like right there

1246
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:04,640
and

1247
00:49:17,589 --> 00:49:15,200
missing time element there because she

1248
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:17,599
went back and looked at her pictures on

1249
00:49:21,270 --> 00:49:18,640
the phone

1250
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,280
she thought it happened when 11 in the

1251
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:23,200
in in the morning right something like

1252
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:24,000
that

1253
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:25,440
and but the time stamps on the

1254
00:49:30,069 --> 00:49:28,079
photograph said what it was like 5 p.m i

1255
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:30,079
believe it was it was in the early

1256
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:32,480
evening it was in the early evening

1257
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:35,839
and so did you see that sequence of

1258
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:38,400
pictures that she attempted to take

1259
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:40,160
i have seen every single picture she's

1260
00:49:43,829 --> 00:49:41,839
taken in regards to ufos and

1261
00:49:46,870 --> 00:49:43,839
unfortunately there is just there's

1262
00:49:48,549 --> 00:49:46,880
nothing in them that that is useful or

1263
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:48,559
or that i could sort of point to as

1264
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:50,640
being evidence of something strange or

1265
00:49:53,589 --> 00:49:52,079
anomalous now

1266
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:53,599
when we come back after the break we're

1267
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:54,880
going to talk about this a little bit

1268
00:49:59,349 --> 00:49:57,520
further because it was an extraordinary

1269
00:50:01,670 --> 00:49:59,359
event and when you read it in the book

1270
00:50:03,670 --> 00:50:01,680
it's it's like the most insane page

1271
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:03,680
turner that you could possibly read

1272
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:04,800
right

1273
00:50:08,790 --> 00:50:06,800
but when you go back and you look at the

1274
00:50:11,670 --> 00:50:08,800
photographs and you listen to her

1275
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:11,680
account recounting the story

1276
00:50:16,790 --> 00:50:14,000
they don't line up and for you what do

1277
00:50:18,950 --> 00:50:16,800
you do with that

1278
00:50:20,390 --> 00:50:18,960
well as a ufo investigator or as someone

1279
00:50:21,109 --> 00:50:20,400
who's an investigator you simply have to

1280
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:21,119
say

1281
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:24,000
listen i can't explain it

1282
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:25,680
but you also have to

1283
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:27,839
sit on that line of because i don't have

1284
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:30,960
evidence i can't necessarily say it's

1285
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:32,720
alien or

1286
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:34,160
interdimensional or whatever right you

1287
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:35,680
have to kind of draw you have to live in

1288
00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:38,000
this i don't know what it is

1289
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:40,559
yeah and and you're forced into you

1290
00:50:45,270 --> 00:50:43,440
can't you can't prove that it happened

1291
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:45,280
and you can't prove that it didn't

1292
00:50:48,950 --> 00:50:47,119
didn't exactly yeah

1293
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:48,960
yeah it's a pretty interesting situation

1294
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:49,760
to be

1295
00:50:53,589 --> 00:50:51,599
because also you have a relationship

1296
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:53,599
with her and her husband now and

1297
00:50:58,470 --> 00:50:54,480
and

1298
00:51:00,549 --> 00:50:58,480
account too as well fascinating stuff

1299
00:51:02,710 --> 00:51:00,559
it's a great read take a break right

1300
00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:02,720
here our guest tonight mj banayas his

1301
00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:06,559
new book is called the ufo people

1302
00:51:09,430 --> 00:51:07,920
we're going to take a quick break here

1303
00:51:11,349 --> 00:51:09,440
we'll pick up where we left off we're

1304
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:11,359
talking about amy and then we're going

1305
00:51:15,270 --> 00:51:13,760
to go deep there's a lot of stuff here

1306
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:15,280
it's going to be impossible to get it

1307
00:51:20,069 --> 00:51:17,280
all in tonight but the links for the

1308
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:20,079
book are up in twitter it's fade to

1309
00:51:22,870 --> 00:51:21,440
black i'm yours jimmy church we'll be

1310
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:22,880
right back after this short break stay

1311
00:51:40,230 --> 00:51:38,710
[Music]

1312
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:40,240
welcome back fade to black i'm your host

1313
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:42,400
jimmy church follow me on twitter at j

1314
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:44,160
church radio you can follow mj at

1315
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:47,440
mjbinayas on twitter

1316
00:51:53,589 --> 00:51:49,680
very simple we're talking about his new

1317
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:53,599
book it is called the ufo people

1318
00:51:59,670 --> 00:51:57,839
now before the break mj we uh the

1319
00:52:02,950 --> 00:51:59,680
central figure the way that you've set

1320
00:52:07,109 --> 00:52:02,960
up the book in a very smart way is

1321
00:52:10,150 --> 00:52:07,119
is amy and amy represents

1322
00:52:11,589 --> 00:52:10,160
just about everybody that i know every

1323
00:52:12,710 --> 00:52:11,599
experiencer

1324
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:12,720
and

1325
00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:16,640
in that it's not just about ufos it it's

1326
00:52:22,390 --> 00:52:20,000
not for her and uh

1327
00:52:26,150 --> 00:52:22,400
let's discuss that for a second but the

1328
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:26,160
the unbelievable uh event

1329
00:52:30,710 --> 00:52:28,319
where she is snapping these pictures oh

1330
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:30,720
wow i want to discuss that because it's

1331
00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:32,480
what happens after that

1332
00:52:36,470 --> 00:52:34,720
and then the event at the neighbor's

1333
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:36,480
house right after that

1334
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:40,079
and when we tell uh when you tell about

1335
00:52:44,549 --> 00:52:43,200
amy's experiences i can't tell you how

1336
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:44,559
many people in this audience are going

1337
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:46,720
to go yep happened to me right happened

1338
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:47,680
to me

1339
00:52:54,069 --> 00:52:50,720
and uh it's it's a

1340
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:54,079
a very strong example of what people go

1341
00:52:58,870 --> 00:52:54,960
through

1342
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:58,880
and and amy's uh story is incredible so

1343
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,200
take us to that moment

1344
00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:03,119
uh where she's

1345
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,920
you know sees this this it's a saucer by

1346
00:53:10,069 --> 00:53:07,920
the way there's no other way to describe

1347
00:53:12,710 --> 00:53:10,079
it is that she sees what

1348
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:12,720
in her backyard and she goes out what

1349
00:53:17,510 --> 00:53:14,400
happens

1350
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:17,520
sure so she's um she's going out to feed

1351
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:19,359
uh the cats that sort of live in her

1352
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:21,599
barn she's she lives on a farm so these

1353
00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:22,960
large barns and there's multiple cats

1354
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:24,880
for living in the barn and so she's on

1355
00:53:28,710 --> 00:53:26,720
her way to feed them and as she's

1356
00:53:31,030 --> 00:53:28,720
heading towards the barn in what she

1357
00:53:34,710 --> 00:53:31,040
thought to be was the morning uh she

1358
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:34,720
looks up into the sky and and sees this

1359
00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:35,680
um

1360
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:38,400
like you say a large sort of saucer-like

1361
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:41,440
craft sort of hovering um and moving

1362
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:44,240
sort of slowly over her over her

1363
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:47,280
basically um and and she looks up um and

1364
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:50,079
and obviously has this sort of crushing

1365
00:53:54,150 --> 00:53:51,920
feeling right as if this thing's gonna

1366
00:53:56,549 --> 00:53:54,160
just come down and squash her right this

1367
00:53:59,910 --> 00:53:56,559
feeling like she's being watched this

1368
00:54:00,950 --> 00:53:59,920
feeling like um this great anxiety of

1369
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:00,960
like

1370
00:54:07,190 --> 00:54:04,400
prey and and and this thing's the

1371
00:54:09,670 --> 00:54:07,200
predator um and it's it sort of has her

1372
00:54:12,069 --> 00:54:09,680
cornered um and and the only thing she

1373
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:12,079
sort of does is is she literally ducks

1374
00:54:16,150 --> 00:54:14,160
like she literally crouches down and and

1375
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:16,160
ducks hoping that this thing doesn't

1376
00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:19,440
land on her head um and and

1377
00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:22,720
moments go by and then i guess her brain

1378
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:24,640
turns back on and she says i should try

1379
00:54:28,950 --> 00:54:26,400
and take a photo of this and she pulls

1380
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:28,960
out her phone um to start snapping

1381
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:31,920
photos um and according to her she

1382
00:54:36,870 --> 00:54:34,240
thinks she has some great shots clearly

1383
00:54:39,510 --> 00:54:36,880
of some massive you know saucer-like

1384
00:54:42,069 --> 00:54:39,520
object and the thing kind of

1385
00:54:43,829 --> 00:54:42,079
sort of goes up in the sky and then

1386
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:43,839
takes off um

1387
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:45,440
away from her

1388
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:47,920
but when she looks at the photographs

1389
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:49,599
you know one there's nothing really in

1390
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:52,079
them apart from a tiny little black dot

1391
00:54:56,390 --> 00:54:54,240
that is that is just sort of almost like

1392
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:56,400
you can barely see it in the picture

1393
00:55:01,270 --> 00:54:59,520
um and a time stamp that no longer makes

1394
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:01,280
sense right and she feeds her cats in

1395
00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:03,839
the morning um so

1396
00:55:07,589 --> 00:55:05,839
why would those pictures be taken at

1397
00:55:09,030 --> 00:55:07,599
five in the afternoon

1398
00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:09,040
she um

1399
00:55:14,230 --> 00:55:11,920
let's let's uh back up a little bit here

1400
00:55:16,950 --> 00:55:14,240
because she gives one of the most

1401
00:55:20,790 --> 00:55:16,960
incredible descriptions of this craft

1402
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:20,800
in vivid detail she says that the bottom

1403
00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:23,599
of the craft is perfectly in focus it's

1404
00:55:28,069 --> 00:55:24,960
a saucer

1405
00:55:29,430 --> 00:55:28,079
um it's silver and then the top half of

1406
00:55:32,069 --> 00:55:29,440
the craft

1407
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:32,079
is a little fuzzier

1408
00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:35,280
with a clear dome

1409
00:55:40,230 --> 00:55:37,440
and the most fascinating part she says

1410
00:55:42,790 --> 00:55:40,240
uh things moving around inside of it uh

1411
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:42,800
like a like how did she describe it like

1412
00:55:48,069 --> 00:55:46,160
a lightning storm a multi-colored

1413
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:48,079
yeah almost like i think the best way to

1414
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:49,680
describe it is is you just have those

1415
00:55:52,789 --> 00:55:51,040
when you were a kid you know those those

1416
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:52,799
ball those round balls that had that

1417
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:54,160
sort of electrode right in the middle

1418
00:55:58,230 --> 00:55:56,000
and it would sort of arc all over the

1419
00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:58,240
place in sort of multiple colors i mean

1420
00:56:01,109 --> 00:55:59,760
you put your hand on it right and then

1421
00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:01,119
like one arc would i don't care what

1422
00:56:05,270 --> 00:56:02,960
they're called um but it was like this

1423
00:56:07,670 --> 00:56:05,280
sort of yeah like like a lightning storm

1424
00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:07,680
of purple and red and blue and greens

1425
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:12,160
with happening inside the craft um

1426
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:14,640
but you know she got a very brief look

1427
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:18,559
at the top so um you know i think um her

1428
00:56:23,750 --> 00:56:20,640
description is is amazing she's she's

1429
00:56:25,589 --> 00:56:23,760
she's a published writer um so so she

1430
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:25,599
sort of has it's definitely the gift of

1431
00:56:32,230 --> 00:56:28,799
gab in that sense um but the what i

1432
00:56:35,349 --> 00:56:32,240
think is more more interesting is is

1433
00:56:37,670 --> 00:56:35,359
that this thing sort of revisits her

1434
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:37,680
multiple times throughout her her sort

1435
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:40,400
of short period dealing with this so far

1436
00:56:43,990 --> 00:56:42,079
within a few years

1437
00:56:46,630 --> 00:56:44,000
um but it also doesn't always look the

1438
00:56:48,870 --> 00:56:46,640
same right she's she's seen multiple

1439
00:56:50,549 --> 00:56:48,880
objects in the sky and every time

1440
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,559
there's something different

1441
00:56:53,829 --> 00:56:52,720
one of her initial sightings was almost

1442
00:56:59,109 --> 00:56:53,839
like a

1443
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:59,119
except it was vertical with sort of

1444
00:57:04,549 --> 00:57:00,000
these

1445
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:04,559
jutting out um uh sort of crystal like

1446
00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:07,200
you know orbs and and shards and it was

1447
00:57:10,870 --> 00:57:09,599
almost like a hotel was parked in front

1448
00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:10,880
of her window

1449
00:57:14,390 --> 00:57:12,559
in size

1450
00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:14,400
and it and it was just this tall sort of

1451
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:16,240
building like cigar-like structure

1452
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:18,480
heading straight up um so so whatever is

1453
00:57:21,829 --> 00:57:20,079
happening she's having multiple

1454
00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:21,839
different experiences and multiple

1455
00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:23,440
different

1456
00:57:27,430 --> 00:57:25,200
i guess visions or interpretations of

1457
00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:27,440
what this this phenomena is

1458
00:57:31,750 --> 00:57:28,319
um

1459
00:57:33,430 --> 00:57:31,760
now it's gotten to the point where uh

1460
00:57:35,589 --> 00:57:33,440
she says that

1461
00:57:37,910 --> 00:57:35,599
every day you know she wakes up and

1462
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:37,920
every you know every night she's looking

1463
00:57:41,349 --> 00:57:40,319
out the window expecting to see

1464
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:41,359
something

1465
00:57:45,990 --> 00:57:44,240
yeah and and to this day she still sees

1466
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:46,000
them every once in a while

1467
00:57:49,990 --> 00:57:47,920
she'll send me an email you know maybe

1468
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:50,000
once every week or two saying you know

1469
00:57:54,789 --> 00:57:52,079
this happened or i saw this or i had

1470
00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:54,799
this weird feeling so so clearly you

1471
00:57:58,069 --> 00:57:56,720
know as i sort of explained in the book

1472
00:58:00,870 --> 00:57:58,079
she's definitely being haunted by

1473
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:00,880
something right it's it's it's for some

1474
00:58:07,750 --> 00:58:05,119
reason pursuing her um and and and you

1475
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:07,760
know obviously we don't know why that is

1476
00:58:12,630 --> 00:58:09,920
that that is really the big question of

1477
00:58:15,510 --> 00:58:12,640
the ufo phenomenon well and then let's

1478
00:58:18,069 --> 00:58:15,520
let's go straight to it there's the the

1479
00:58:19,510 --> 00:58:18,079
the next uh the next part of the book

1480
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:19,520
which is called

1481
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,119
uh the woman on the porch

1482
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:25,280
so amy uh

1483
00:58:30,549 --> 00:58:28,240
uh is out walking her dogs and i'll let

1484
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:30,559
you pick it up from there

1485
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:32,720
um yeah so she's she's actually going to

1486
00:58:37,430 --> 00:58:35,200
feed the dogs at her neighbor's house so

1487
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:37,440
her name is away right right on yeah her

1488
00:58:43,349 --> 00:58:41,040
neighbor's away on on a trip um and

1489
00:58:45,349 --> 00:58:43,359
you know she asked amy to to take care

1490
00:58:47,750 --> 00:58:45,359
of the dogs let them out go for you know

1491
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:47,760
run and and get food or whatever so

1492
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:49,040
she's she's heading to her neighbor's

1493
00:58:52,470 --> 00:58:51,040
house and the walk is is not very long i

1494
00:58:55,510 --> 00:58:52,480
think about five or eight minutes she

1495
00:58:57,510 --> 00:58:55,520
states um to the next house uh and and

1496
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:57,520
as she gets onto the driveway and it's

1497
00:59:02,710 --> 00:58:59,520
quite long like the driveway walk alone

1498
00:59:05,349 --> 00:59:02,720
is a minute um and and she sort of as

1499
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:05,359
she's walking down this driveway the the

1500
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:08,160
minute long walk she realizes has taken

1501
00:59:14,309 --> 00:59:10,799
her a lot longer than normal um she sort

1502
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:14,319
of gets to the the down the driveway and

1503
00:59:18,069 --> 00:59:16,240
um she feels as if you know like five or

1504
00:59:20,309 --> 00:59:18,079
six minutes has gone by like this like

1505
00:59:22,630 --> 00:59:20,319
as if you know like she's walking but

1506
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:22,640
like she's not making any progress

1507
00:59:27,910 --> 00:59:26,000
anyway she gets to the dogs um and as

1508
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:27,920
she's walking past the front door and

1509
00:59:33,349 --> 00:59:30,240
the porch of this this farmhouse there's

1510
00:59:35,589 --> 00:59:33,359
a woman sitting inside the porch

1511
00:59:38,230 --> 00:59:35,599
um you know she sort of waves and says

1512
00:59:41,030 --> 00:59:38,240
hi the woman sort of just glares at her

1513
00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:41,040
um you know holding her cup of coffee um

1514
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:42,720
and amy sort of thinks well you know it

1515
00:59:46,870 --> 00:59:44,160
must be you know

1516
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:46,880
a friend or a neighbor or a you know the

1517
00:59:50,950 --> 00:59:48,880
woman's sister or something so she sort

1518
00:59:53,270 --> 00:59:50,960
of ignores her says hi gets no response

1519
00:59:55,670 --> 00:59:53,280
and and lets the dogs out or goes to let

1520
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:55,680
the dogs out and the dogs sort of

1521
00:59:59,990 --> 00:59:57,359
sit um

1522
01:00:01,349 --> 01:00:00,000
inside the the garage like they they

1523
01:00:03,430 --> 01:00:01,359
don't leave

1524
01:00:05,430 --> 01:00:03,440
they're they're they almost seem nervous

1525
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:05,440
um so

1526
01:00:07,510 --> 01:00:06,480
so she

1527
01:00:09,190 --> 01:00:07,520
she sort of

1528
01:00:10,950 --> 01:00:09,200
kind of goes in gives them some food

1529
01:00:12,710 --> 01:00:10,960
wonders why they don't want to leave

1530
01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:12,720
heads back to

1531
01:00:18,069 --> 01:00:16,400
to the porch um and sort of sees this

1532
01:00:20,470 --> 01:00:18,079
woman who's sort of now standing up

1533
01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:20,480
glaring at her out of out of one of the

1534
01:00:25,510 --> 01:00:23,119
sort of screened-in sort of windows

1535
01:00:28,390 --> 01:00:25,520
um and you know

1536
01:00:30,230 --> 01:00:28,400
eventually this woman just sort of

1537
01:00:32,230 --> 01:00:30,240
walks

1538
01:00:34,390 --> 01:00:32,240
through a door

1539
01:00:37,030 --> 01:00:34,400
back into the house

1540
01:00:38,789 --> 01:00:37,040
so so amy you know not really thinking

1541
01:00:40,390 --> 01:00:38,799
about it goes back to the dogs and

1542
01:00:41,829 --> 01:00:40,400
suddenly the dogs are fine you know they

1543
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:41,839
get up they start running around and she

1544
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:43,280
feels really uneasy about this so she

1545
01:00:47,750 --> 01:00:46,240
goes inside the house um and realizes

1546
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:47,760
that the door the woman walked through

1547
01:00:53,510 --> 01:00:51,040
was not only bolted shut it it has like

1548
01:00:54,950 --> 01:00:53,520
moving boxes that are full stacked in

1549
01:00:57,030 --> 01:00:54,960
front of it so so this woman in the

1550
01:00:59,030 --> 01:00:57,040
porch just walked through a door

1551
01:01:01,589 --> 01:00:59,040
that is totally

1552
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:01,599
unable to open yeah it's blocked

1553
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:04,240
yeah it's totally blocked um so you know

1554
01:01:09,589 --> 01:01:07,200
one house is possible uh and anyway to

1555
01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:09,599
make a long story short um the the

1556
01:01:12,789 --> 01:01:11,760
neighbor comes home sort of several days

1557
01:01:15,510 --> 01:01:12,799
later

1558
01:01:17,190 --> 01:01:15,520
and um amy sort of talks about this

1559
01:01:19,109 --> 01:01:17,200
woman that was in this porch and she

1560
01:01:21,589 --> 01:01:19,119
sort of describes her his glasses sort

1561
01:01:23,510 --> 01:01:21,599
of older looking but not you know not

1562
01:01:25,829 --> 01:01:23,520
like an old lady but you know in her i

1563
01:01:26,710 --> 01:01:25,839
think mid 60s you know cup of coffee

1564
01:01:30,150 --> 01:01:26,720
whatever

1565
01:01:32,470 --> 01:01:30,160
and um you know the neighbor finds a

1566
01:01:34,069 --> 01:01:32,480
photograph of of someone and says you

1567
01:01:35,670 --> 01:01:34,079
know was this her

1568
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:35,680
and and he was like yeah that's that's

1569
01:01:38,789 --> 01:01:36,960
her 100

1570
01:01:41,670 --> 01:01:38,799
and the neighbor says oh that's that's

1571
01:01:44,230 --> 01:01:41,680
my mother um she died

1572
01:01:46,870 --> 01:01:44,240
like two years ago um and it was quite

1573
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:46,880
sudden and it was from from like cancer

1574
01:01:53,750 --> 01:01:50,160
and it came on quite quickly uh and and

1575
01:01:55,270 --> 01:01:53,760
amy obviously like you know

1576
01:01:58,309 --> 01:01:55,280
has this emotional moment and the

1577
01:01:59,829 --> 01:01:58,319
neighbor bursts into tears and um it's

1578
01:02:03,270 --> 01:01:59,839
obviously this is a sort of incredible

1579
01:02:05,910 --> 01:02:03,280
emotional moment between them um and and

1580
01:02:08,870 --> 01:02:05,920
i spoke to the neighbor and and she was

1581
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:08,880
able to confirm the story that you know

1582
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:10,640
amy told me this and this is sort of how

1583
01:02:14,470 --> 01:02:12,960
it played out and and uh you know there

1584
01:02:16,150 --> 01:02:14,480
was no there was no contradiction

1585
01:02:18,630 --> 01:02:16,160
between amy's story and the neighbor's

1586
01:02:21,030 --> 01:02:18,640
story when when i when i spoke to her it

1587
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:21,040
sort of happened as amy told me um and

1588
01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:23,520
it was fascinating to sort of have this

1589
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:24,400
sort of

1590
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:28,000
you could call it ghost

1591
01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:29,680
story

1592
01:02:32,789 --> 01:02:30,400
that

1593
01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:32,799
really blew my mind at

1594
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:36,480
how amazing it was um and just the

1595
01:02:39,829 --> 01:02:38,240
the correlation between the ufo

1596
01:02:41,670 --> 01:02:39,839
sightings and how she felt when she saw

1597
01:02:42,710 --> 01:02:41,680
the ufo and how she felt when she saw

1598
01:02:44,470 --> 01:02:42,720
this person

1599
01:02:46,549 --> 01:02:44,480
the the sort of the weird time

1600
01:02:48,470 --> 01:02:46,559
discrepancy of walking down the driveway

1601
01:02:50,309 --> 01:02:48,480
right that one minute walk that ended up

1602
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:50,319
being sort of six or seven minutes like

1603
01:02:54,150 --> 01:02:52,079
what was going on right during these

1604
01:02:56,630 --> 01:02:54,160
lost minutes of time and and and how

1605
01:02:58,710 --> 01:02:56,640
that often happens within um various

1606
01:03:01,589 --> 01:02:58,720
paranormal sightings and paranormal

1607
01:03:03,270 --> 01:03:01,599
events yeah are these things connected

1608
01:03:05,910 --> 01:03:03,280
and that's the question

1609
01:03:08,069 --> 01:03:05,920
you know are they connected and this is

1610
01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:08,079
this is what is fascinating with me is

1611
01:03:09,910 --> 01:03:08,880
that

1612
01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:09,920
uh

1613
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:16,559
amy's background and story and then

1614
01:03:20,069 --> 01:03:18,480
jumping into

1615
01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:20,079
subcultures

1616
01:03:26,150 --> 01:03:22,720
and is and that's that's what the book

1617
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:26,160
is based on and let's actually discuss

1618
01:03:31,270 --> 01:03:28,640
what a subculture is

1619
01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:31,280
for you i mean we have the webster's

1620
01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:34,079
dictionary uh definition and then we

1621
01:03:38,390 --> 01:03:36,000
have the way that you've laid it out

1622
01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:38,400
here what is the definition for you of a

1623
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:40,000
subculture

1624
01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:41,039
sure so

1625
01:03:44,870 --> 01:03:42,400
when we talk about subcultures there's

1626
01:03:46,390 --> 01:03:44,880
really a few things that that we really

1627
01:03:48,630 --> 01:03:46,400
need to have a subculture the first

1628
01:03:49,589 --> 01:03:48,640
thing is that a subculture needs to sort

1629
01:03:51,829 --> 01:03:49,599
of be

1630
01:03:53,029 --> 01:03:51,839
or it needs to deviate from what we

1631
01:03:55,589 --> 01:03:53,039
would sort of say is normal or

1632
01:03:58,950 --> 01:03:55,599
mainstream so subculture has to somehow

1633
01:04:01,029 --> 01:03:58,960
um remove itself from mainstream culture

1634
01:04:02,309 --> 01:04:01,039
in some way so it has to have ideas or

1635
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:02,319
it has to have

1636
01:04:07,190 --> 01:04:04,640
um belief systems or value systems that

1637
01:04:09,670 --> 01:04:07,200
contradict what the mainstream or the

1638
01:04:11,829 --> 01:04:09,680
popular sort of accept

1639
01:04:14,470 --> 01:04:11,839
the second thing is a subculture needs

1640
01:04:16,470 --> 01:04:14,480
some sort of style or identity so when

1641
01:04:18,230 --> 01:04:16,480
we talk about subcultures decades ago

1642
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:18,240
the the term style is often used so when

1643
01:04:22,390 --> 01:04:19,839
you think about like punk subculture

1644
01:04:23,829 --> 01:04:22,400
when you think about you know um hippie

1645
01:04:26,150 --> 01:04:23,839
sub the hippie subculture right they had

1646
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:26,160
a certain style but nowadays the world's

1647
01:04:31,029 --> 01:04:28,079
changed um so now we use the term

1648
01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:31,039
identity so a subculture will have often

1649
01:04:37,029 --> 01:04:33,119
a common set of beliefs or a common set

1650
01:04:40,069 --> 01:04:37,039
of jargon or or a common set of um

1651
01:04:41,430 --> 01:04:40,079
of ideas or ideologies that that link

1652
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:41,440
them together so when we think about

1653
01:04:46,150 --> 01:04:43,200
let's say the ufo community for example

1654
01:04:47,670 --> 01:04:46,160
you know we have a set sort of identity

1655
01:04:49,190 --> 01:04:47,680
it doesn't always agree but we can at

1656
01:04:51,670 --> 01:04:49,200
least communicate with each other we

1657
01:04:55,270 --> 01:04:51,680
know the jargon we know the lingo we

1658
01:04:57,109 --> 01:04:55,280
know what we mean when we say uap or ufo

1659
01:05:00,710 --> 01:04:57,119
we know what we mean when we say are you

1660
01:05:01,670 --> 01:05:00,720
a nuts and bolts uh et hypothesis guy or

1661
01:05:02,789 --> 01:05:01,680
are you

1662
01:05:04,710 --> 01:05:02,799
you know a

1663
01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:04,720
mystical interdimensional guy like you

1664
01:05:08,789 --> 01:05:06,720
know we know what all these terms mean

1665
01:05:10,789 --> 01:05:08,799
so we can communicate with each other so

1666
01:05:13,589 --> 01:05:10,799
when we talk about subcultures we need

1667
01:05:16,470 --> 01:05:13,599
sort of those two key pieces

1668
01:05:18,390 --> 01:05:16,480
this deviance and then this this sort of

1669
01:05:19,829 --> 01:05:18,400
identity and then that's what forms a

1670
01:05:23,510 --> 01:05:19,839
subculture

1671
01:05:26,870 --> 01:05:23,520
why do you feel that we

1672
01:05:28,309 --> 01:05:26,880
here in the ufo community don't have

1673
01:05:31,270 --> 01:05:28,319
structure

1674
01:05:32,549 --> 01:05:31,280
in our subculture and i mean it i i mean

1675
01:05:33,829 --> 01:05:32,559
it like this

1676
01:05:36,069 --> 01:05:33,839
if uh

1677
01:05:38,150 --> 01:05:36,079
if you talk about anything out there

1678
01:05:39,670 --> 01:05:38,160
whether it is a professional

1679
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:39,680
organization

1680
01:05:48,230 --> 01:05:44,240
or uh the finance world or religion or

1681
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:48,240
uh sports or nascar the mba right there

1682
01:05:54,630 --> 01:05:51,359
is a structure there's a hierarchy

1683
01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:54,640
you know what i mean there is control

1684
01:06:00,230 --> 01:05:58,000
not in the ufo community there isn't any

1685
01:06:02,789 --> 01:06:00,240
structure whatsoever is there

1686
01:06:06,630 --> 01:06:02,799
no the ufr the ufo community is like a

1687
01:06:09,910 --> 01:06:06,640
perfect anarchy right there is no

1688
01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:09,920
um ivory tower that says you are a ufo

1689
01:06:14,309 --> 01:06:12,079
researcher a ufologist there's there's

1690
01:06:15,270 --> 01:06:14,319
there's and then can remove that right

1691
01:06:18,309 --> 01:06:15,280
there's no

1692
01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:18,319
body that governs ufo research there's

1693
01:06:23,029 --> 01:06:20,960
no there's no body that sort of says

1694
01:06:25,910 --> 01:06:23,039
this is how it ought to be or how it

1695
01:06:28,150 --> 01:06:25,920
ought to work we live in this perfect

1696
01:06:32,069 --> 01:06:28,160
this this like i said this perfect

1697
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:32,079
anarchy where any idea um sort of can be

1698
01:06:36,069 --> 01:06:34,960
accepted and when you look at the ufo

1699
01:06:38,470 --> 01:06:36,079
discourse

1700
01:06:41,190 --> 01:06:38,480
you have ideas that are

1701
01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:41,200
the strangest wildest thing you've ever

1702
01:06:44,870 --> 01:06:42,720
heard in your life that's like sounds

1703
01:06:47,190 --> 01:06:44,880
like total nonsense to some you know

1704
01:06:50,630 --> 01:06:47,200
incredibly sane well thought out well

1705
01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:50,640
reasoned you know logic and and and data

1706
01:06:57,589 --> 01:06:54,640
so you have this vast array and um you

1707
01:06:59,270 --> 01:06:57,599
know the ufo the ufo enigma itself seems

1708
01:07:01,750 --> 01:06:59,280
to kind of be like that as well right i

1709
01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:01,760
think the ufo community really mimics

1710
01:07:07,190 --> 01:07:03,760
the ufo phenomenon itself because you

1711
01:07:08,789 --> 01:07:07,200
have these incredibly insane experiences

1712
01:07:11,670 --> 01:07:08,799
um that we you know often refer to as

1713
01:07:13,349 --> 01:07:11,680
high strangeness um that are are are

1714
01:07:16,230 --> 01:07:13,359
totally wild

1715
01:07:18,230 --> 01:07:16,240
and then you have you know relatively

1716
01:07:19,670 --> 01:07:18,240
sort of i don't want to see prosaic but

1717
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:19,680
relatively sort of standard you know

1718
01:07:23,029 --> 01:07:21,760
lights in the sky or seeing some sort of

1719
01:07:24,950 --> 01:07:23,039
daylight disc

1720
01:07:26,630 --> 01:07:24,960
um that that is sort of i guess you

1721
01:07:30,309 --> 01:07:26,640
could sort of say more normal quote

1722
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:30,319
unquote um so so we we kind of

1723
01:07:34,710 --> 01:07:32,799
live alongside the phenomenon in a sense

1724
01:07:36,309 --> 01:07:34,720
and maybe the phenomenon sort of like

1725
01:07:37,990 --> 01:07:36,319
that purposefully throwing us off all

1726
01:07:39,750 --> 01:07:38,000
the time and allowing for this anarchy

1727
01:07:41,510 --> 01:07:39,760
to exist

1728
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:41,520
and maybe the ufo phenomena needs the

1729
01:07:45,589 --> 01:07:43,280
anarchy to exist you know you need the

1730
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:45,599
high strangers need the high strangeness

1731
01:07:50,390 --> 01:07:47,440
next to the scientific

1732
01:07:53,029 --> 01:07:50,400
data driven ufo research well

1733
01:07:55,990 --> 01:07:53,039
it is so we kind of have a paradox here

1734
01:07:57,910 --> 01:07:56,000
in that the ufo community has always

1735
01:07:59,750 --> 01:07:57,920
policed itself

1736
01:08:03,349 --> 01:07:59,760
right that's well the term police is

1737
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:03,359
interesting right right yeah and and and

1738
01:08:09,190 --> 01:08:06,960
that allows for because of no ivory

1739
01:08:10,470 --> 01:08:09,200
tower there are no standards

1740
01:08:13,349 --> 01:08:10,480
um

1741
01:08:16,149 --> 01:08:13,359
it allows for everybody to have this

1742
01:08:19,910 --> 01:08:16,159
freedom of speech and what we don't want

1743
01:08:22,229 --> 01:08:19,920
is to censor our community but we've got

1744
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:22,239
you know what i mean now we've got two

1745
01:08:26,229 --> 01:08:24,239
things that are working against each

1746
01:08:28,390 --> 01:08:26,239
other where everything is allowed you

1747
01:08:30,470 --> 01:08:28,400
can have your freedom

1748
01:08:32,870 --> 01:08:30,480
but there's no policing for that and

1749
01:08:34,630 --> 01:08:32,880
those standards are set

1750
01:08:37,110 --> 01:08:34,640
right it's a double-edged sword right i

1751
01:08:40,149 --> 01:08:37,120
mean the ufo community is very much a

1752
01:08:41,910 --> 01:08:40,159
counter cultural community right um we

1753
01:08:44,709 --> 01:08:41,920
we actively

1754
01:08:47,110 --> 01:08:44,719
um challenge sort of the mainstream

1755
01:08:49,829 --> 01:08:47,120
power systems we challenge political

1756
01:08:52,309 --> 01:08:49,839
systems we challenge economic systems we

1757
01:08:53,749 --> 01:08:52,319
challenge what the very definition of

1758
01:08:55,349 --> 01:08:53,759
normal is

1759
01:08:56,950 --> 01:08:55,359
um

1760
01:08:58,630 --> 01:08:56,960
but the problem is in order to sort of

1761
01:09:00,789 --> 01:08:58,640
make any progress or headway when it

1762
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:00,799
comes to sort of proper research let's

1763
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:03,120
say or academic research or standardized

1764
01:09:07,590 --> 01:09:05,440
research you need those those bodies in

1765
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:07,600
place right you need a set system of

1766
01:09:13,590 --> 01:09:10,480
sort of politics and economics and and

1767
01:09:16,630 --> 01:09:13,600
culture um because you know somebody or

1768
01:09:18,470 --> 01:09:16,640
something has to you know decide what

1769
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:18,480
what is allowed and what isn't allowed

1770
01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:20,560
um could you imagine like if if medical

1771
01:09:24,709 --> 01:09:22,319
practice was like the ufo community

1772
01:09:26,550 --> 01:09:24,719
right where anyone can any doctor can do

1773
01:09:29,269 --> 01:09:26,560
whatever they want and follow no rules

1774
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:29,279
it would be chaos um

1775
01:09:35,349 --> 01:09:30,080
so

1776
01:09:37,590 --> 01:09:35,359
um we haven't really made a lot of

1777
01:09:40,149 --> 01:09:37,600
progress ufologically speaking right we

1778
01:09:42,870 --> 01:09:40,159
haven't really gotten closer to any sort

1779
01:09:45,829 --> 01:09:42,880
of set answer as to what the source is

1780
01:09:47,349 --> 01:09:45,839
of the ufo phenomenon um

1781
01:09:49,510 --> 01:09:47,359
that being said we've made a lot of

1782
01:09:50,870 --> 01:09:49,520
progress in in coming up with a bunch of

1783
01:09:52,149 --> 01:09:50,880
different hypotheses and a bunch of

1784
01:09:54,550 --> 01:09:52,159
different theories

1785
01:09:57,030 --> 01:09:54,560
um and and we've kind of run the gamut i

1786
01:09:58,390 --> 01:09:57,040
think of of you know where we're going

1787
01:10:00,550 --> 01:09:58,400
to go next you know like what is the

1788
01:10:02,709 --> 01:10:00,560
next thing on the horizon for ufo

1789
01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:02,719
thinking and then where are we going

1790
01:10:07,590 --> 01:10:05,520
in 10 years and 20 years and 30 years

1791
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:07,600
sort of what is the ufo enigma going to

1792
01:10:11,510 --> 01:10:10,320
look like in in those decades to come

1793
01:10:20,310 --> 01:10:11,520
and

1794
01:10:21,430 --> 01:10:20,320
individuals uh to come into the

1795
01:10:24,550 --> 01:10:21,440
community

1796
01:10:27,270 --> 01:10:24,560
without any set standards and

1797
01:10:30,390 --> 01:10:27,280
uh because of this ability

1798
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:30,400
to not be censored or certainly not have

1799
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:33,840
a a report card and graded like you

1800
01:10:39,430 --> 01:10:37,440
would anywhere else in nascar or

1801
01:10:41,910 --> 01:10:39,440
if you're a code writer in silicon

1802
01:10:44,310 --> 01:10:41,920
valley there are

1803
01:10:46,870 --> 01:10:44,320
if you're not good or if you're fake or

1804
01:10:49,270 --> 01:10:46,880
if you have light on your cv you're

1805
01:10:51,430 --> 01:10:49,280
going to get caught here in the ufo

1806
01:10:54,790 --> 01:10:51,440
community we don't have that

1807
01:10:57,189 --> 01:10:54,800
and now enters and this is this is where

1808
01:10:58,709 --> 01:10:57,199
we need to uh focus on a couple of

1809
01:10:59,590 --> 01:10:58,719
things and you do really well in the

1810
01:11:01,910 --> 01:10:59,600
book

1811
01:11:03,510 --> 01:11:01,920
is william moore

1812
01:11:06,950 --> 01:11:03,520
richard dodie

1813
01:11:10,790 --> 01:11:06,960
and and and paul benowitz and linda

1814
01:11:11,830 --> 01:11:10,800
moulton howe and jamie chanderay and and

1815
01:11:15,910 --> 01:11:11,840
and

1816
01:11:19,830 --> 01:11:15,920
this crazy situation that started to

1817
01:11:22,950 --> 01:11:19,840
uh unfold into the ufo community because

1818
01:11:23,910 --> 01:11:22,960
it's easy to do isn't it

1819
01:11:27,590 --> 01:11:23,920
yeah

1820
01:11:30,950 --> 01:11:27,600
the the 1980s is like one of the most

1821
01:11:32,470 --> 01:11:30,960
important decades in in ufo

1822
01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:32,480
in the ufo narrative and in ufo

1823
01:11:35,590 --> 01:11:34,000
discourse no questions

1824
01:11:37,510 --> 01:11:35,600
it's really shaped

1825
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:37,520
um what people

1826
01:11:42,870 --> 01:11:40,480
what people believe um when it comes to

1827
01:11:46,229 --> 01:11:42,880
the ufo question right the entire

1828
01:11:48,870 --> 01:11:46,239
um idea of like hidden underground bases

1829
01:11:50,790 --> 01:11:48,880
and and really really

1830
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:50,800
complex government conspiracies and

1831
01:11:56,149 --> 01:11:54,480
handshake deals with aliens and um ebees

1832
01:11:58,870 --> 01:11:56,159
who like strawberry ice cream and

1833
01:12:00,870 --> 01:11:58,880
tibetan music like this is all like

1834
01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:00,880
really created a lot of mythology and

1835
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:02,640
and and i don't mean mythology in that

1836
01:12:06,550 --> 01:12:04,640
it's fake but it's created mythology in

1837
01:12:09,030 --> 01:12:06,560
the sense that the stories have sort of

1838
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:09,040
built upon themselves right mj-12 and

1839
01:12:13,430 --> 01:12:11,520
and all that is just this this sort of

1840
01:12:15,590 --> 01:12:13,440
mythological machine that just keeps

1841
01:12:18,229 --> 01:12:15,600
turning and and right at the center of

1842
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:18,239
it all right like you have this whole

1843
01:12:21,750 --> 01:12:19,440
you know

1844
01:12:23,430 --> 01:12:21,760
cultural movement within ufology from

1845
01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:23,440
the 1980s and like right smack dab in

1846
01:12:27,430 --> 01:12:24,800
the middle of it all right is richard

1847
01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:27,440
doughty um who i feature sort of

1848
01:12:31,510 --> 01:12:29,520
prominently in my book he and i had

1849
01:12:34,470 --> 01:12:31,520
several sort of interviews and we spoke

1850
01:12:36,550 --> 01:12:34,480
a lot for about four or five months

1851
01:12:37,669 --> 01:12:36,560
to kind of put this chapter together

1852
01:12:39,750 --> 01:12:37,679
um

1853
01:12:41,510 --> 01:12:39,760
and and he's a really interesting cat i

1854
01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:41,520
have to be honest um

1855
01:12:46,229 --> 01:12:43,600
and ultimately like and as i say in the

1856
01:12:49,030 --> 01:12:46,239
book he's like a really nice guy um

1857
01:12:50,709 --> 01:12:49,040
he's he's he's he's someone i would you

1858
01:12:54,070 --> 01:12:50,719
know i'd buy him a beer you know if i

1859
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:54,080
ever met him um but he's very much also

1860
01:12:56,550 --> 01:12:54,960
sort of

1861
01:13:03,430 --> 01:12:56,560
this

1862
01:13:04,470 --> 01:13:03,440
he's the most hated man in ufology he's

1863
01:13:05,669 --> 01:13:04,480
absolutely

1864
01:13:07,510 --> 01:13:05,679
the most

1865
01:13:08,470 --> 01:13:07,520
hated man

1866
01:13:11,669 --> 01:13:08,480
you know

1867
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:11,679
uh okay so that part of it

1868
01:13:14,630 --> 01:13:13,440
he's like part myth and part real right

1869
01:13:16,070 --> 01:13:14,640
like not to catch up but he's like sort

1870
01:13:18,310 --> 01:13:16,080
of half mythology and half real that's

1871
01:13:19,669 --> 01:13:18,320
kind of the best way to put it did you

1872
01:13:22,149 --> 01:13:19,679
uh

1873
01:13:24,870 --> 01:13:22,159
get a chance to listen to

1874
01:13:27,189 --> 01:13:24,880
uh uh he called in to fade to black one

1875
01:13:30,390 --> 01:13:27,199
night did you listen to that interview

1876
01:13:32,070 --> 01:13:30,400
um you know i did and in fact i i

1877
01:13:34,470 --> 01:13:32,080
listened to it the next morning and i

1878
01:13:35,669 --> 01:13:34,480
was texting him literally as i was

1879
01:13:36,550 --> 01:13:35,679
listening to it

1880
01:13:39,430 --> 01:13:36,560
okay

1881
01:13:42,310 --> 01:13:39,440
so

1882
01:13:44,550 --> 01:13:42,320
this is uh your take on richard let's

1883
01:13:48,630 --> 01:13:44,560
let's kind of focus on this because

1884
01:13:50,390 --> 01:13:48,640
uh he is somebody that hasn't gone away

1885
01:13:53,189 --> 01:13:50,400
to this day

1886
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:53,199
um he is as much of a part of this

1887
01:13:55,510 --> 01:13:54,400
community

1888
01:13:59,510 --> 01:13:55,520
uh

1889
01:14:00,550 --> 01:13:59,520
richard he is a part of this community

1890
01:14:02,630 --> 01:14:00,560
today

1891
01:14:03,830 --> 01:14:02,640
but it is what he

1892
01:14:08,149 --> 01:14:03,840
did

1893
01:14:11,189 --> 01:14:08,159
right in in the 1980s

1894
01:14:14,470 --> 01:14:11,199
that um how do i how should i say this

1895
01:14:17,750 --> 01:14:14,480
has has made him such a dark figure that

1896
01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:17,760
we don't even know now uh what is true

1897
01:14:24,630 --> 01:14:23,040
and what isn't about him and his job was

1898
01:14:28,149 --> 01:14:24,640
disinformation

1899
01:14:29,430 --> 01:14:28,159
and admittedly so on his part so how do

1900
01:14:31,990 --> 01:14:29,440
we today

1901
01:14:33,590 --> 01:14:32,000
trust richard doughty

1902
01:14:36,470 --> 01:14:33,600
well okay so

1903
01:14:37,990 --> 01:14:36,480
i'm you know that's a tough question

1904
01:14:40,229 --> 01:14:38,000
because

1905
01:14:42,229 --> 01:14:40,239
one thing i'll say is is when i was

1906
01:14:44,630 --> 01:14:42,239
speaking to richard doty about his

1907
01:14:46,870 --> 01:14:44,640
personal life um you know he's a

1908
01:14:49,110 --> 01:14:46,880
grandfather who worships his

1909
01:14:51,830 --> 01:14:49,120
grandchildren um and and loves them with

1910
01:14:54,709 --> 01:14:51,840
all of his heart he's a family man um

1911
01:14:57,510 --> 01:14:54,719
you know so he's he's a genuine human

1912
01:15:01,189 --> 01:14:57,520
being and and he is he's a good person

1913
01:15:03,270 --> 01:15:01,199
in in that regard right um but

1914
01:15:04,709 --> 01:15:03,280
he's been sort of lionized and demonized

1915
01:15:06,470 --> 01:15:04,719
so much that

1916
01:15:09,669 --> 01:15:06,480
even when i speak to him about sort of

1917
01:15:11,830 --> 01:15:09,679
the ufo question um i don't know if he's

1918
01:15:13,189 --> 01:15:11,840
necessarily telling me the truth or not

1919
01:15:15,189 --> 01:15:13,199
you know when he sends me pictures of

1920
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:15,199
his grandkids or or he tells me about

1921
01:15:18,229 --> 01:15:17,280
them you know i know he's being honest

1922
01:15:19,110 --> 01:15:18,239
but when

1923
01:15:23,350 --> 01:15:19,120
when

1924
01:15:25,430 --> 01:15:23,360
sort of what he did or what he didn't do

1925
01:15:28,390 --> 01:15:25,440
or what he saw or didn't see when it

1926
01:15:31,189 --> 01:15:28,400
came to the sort of alien ufo question

1927
01:15:32,950 --> 01:15:31,199
you're left in this weird like i i don't

1928
01:15:35,830 --> 01:15:32,960
know if i if i trust you like you're

1929
01:15:38,229 --> 01:15:35,840
you're kind of left guessing right um

1930
01:15:39,990 --> 01:15:38,239
but you know in in not maybe not in

1931
01:15:41,669 --> 01:15:40,000
defense of richard dodie but to compare

1932
01:15:44,390 --> 01:15:41,679
richard doherty to the ufo community

1933
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:44,400
aren't we all kind of like isn't the ufo

1934
01:15:48,630 --> 01:15:46,480
phenomenon and the ufo discourse and the

1935
01:15:50,950 --> 01:15:48,640
ufo community kind of like that too like

1936
01:15:53,510 --> 01:15:50,960
don't we exist in this sort of dualistic

1937
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:53,520
realm where we tell stories and make

1938
01:15:58,550 --> 01:15:55,920
stuff up and and live alongside

1939
01:16:01,990 --> 01:15:58,560
charlatans who just lie straight up and

1940
01:16:04,149 --> 01:16:02,000
and and and create ufological content

1941
01:16:05,990 --> 01:16:04,159
just by pulling out of their butt um and

1942
01:16:07,750 --> 01:16:06,000
then there's the factual ufo stuff right

1943
01:16:10,149 --> 01:16:07,760
the objective events that the actual

1944
01:16:12,790 --> 01:16:10,159
sightings the real experiences uh the

1945
01:16:16,709 --> 01:16:12,800
real abductees and contactees

1946
01:16:19,189 --> 01:16:16,719
so really ufo discourse and and ufo um

1947
01:16:22,550 --> 01:16:19,199
the ufo topic really is what richard

1948
01:16:25,350 --> 01:16:22,560
dodie is right part myth and and part

1949
01:16:27,590 --> 01:16:25,360
fact um it's both real and not real

1950
01:16:29,830 --> 01:16:27,600
simultaneously exactly the same way

1951
01:16:31,110 --> 01:16:29,840
richard dodie is and and what i sort of

1952
01:16:33,110 --> 01:16:31,120
point out in the book is i think we

1953
01:16:35,270 --> 01:16:33,120
don't like richard doty because we see

1954
01:16:39,030 --> 01:16:35,280
ourselves sort of in richard dohey a

1955
01:16:41,990 --> 01:16:39,040
little bit um we see that our reality is

1956
01:16:44,709 --> 01:16:42,000
as much unreality and our unreality is

1957
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:44,719
as real as reality um it's the sort of

1958
01:16:50,229 --> 01:16:48,400
symbiotic relationship um and and and

1959
01:16:52,149 --> 01:16:50,239
like i said dodie's such an interesting

1960
01:16:53,750 --> 01:16:52,159
cat and i think that that's why i spent

1961
01:16:56,390 --> 01:16:53,760
a lot of time talking to him and and

1962
01:16:59,350 --> 01:16:56,400
interviewing him um because he's really

1963
01:17:01,189 --> 01:16:59,360
shaped this idea

1964
01:17:02,870 --> 01:17:01,199
well yeah

1965
01:17:04,550 --> 01:17:02,880
okay

1966
01:17:06,470 --> 01:17:04,560
richard doty

1967
01:17:08,870 --> 01:17:06,480
um

1968
01:17:10,630 --> 01:17:08,880
would have and i asked him about this

1969
01:17:13,830 --> 01:17:10,640
directly you listen to the interview but

1970
01:17:15,350 --> 01:17:13,840
this is this is really the bottom line

1971
01:17:16,709 --> 01:17:15,360
richard doty

1972
01:17:17,590 --> 01:17:16,719
should have

1973
01:17:20,950 --> 01:17:17,600
uh

1974
01:17:23,590 --> 01:17:20,960
told benowitz the truth

1975
01:17:26,790 --> 01:17:23,600
right the truth as he knew it which is

1976
01:17:30,709 --> 01:17:26,800
dude it's not ufos you're listening to

1977
01:17:33,750 --> 01:17:30,719
uh secret government uh air force

1978
01:17:35,910 --> 01:17:33,760
communications on a top secret project

1979
01:17:37,189 --> 01:17:35,920
be a good american citizen shut your

1980
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:37,199
stuff down

1981
01:17:43,590 --> 01:17:41,600
and it's not ufos and let's move forward

1982
01:17:45,590 --> 01:17:43,600
right that that

1983
01:17:48,229 --> 01:17:45,600
you know and he was you know no we

1984
01:17:51,430 --> 01:17:48,239
needed to use benowitz

1985
01:17:53,110 --> 01:17:51,440
uh to disguise this as ufos because it

1986
01:17:55,189 --> 01:17:53,120
was a secret government project but if

1987
01:17:57,830 --> 01:17:55,199
we could you know have him believe it

1988
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:57,840
was ufos he tells everybody ufos and it

1989
01:18:02,229 --> 01:18:00,239
that takes the smoke screen off of this

1990
01:18:03,990 --> 01:18:02,239
secret access program that we're working

1991
01:18:05,510 --> 01:18:04,000
on at kirkland air force base that has

1992
01:18:07,270 --> 01:18:05,520
to deal with whatever it was dealing

1993
01:18:09,510 --> 01:18:07,280
with with the russians and satellites

1994
01:18:13,590 --> 01:18:09,520
whatever it was it doesn't matter

1995
01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:13,600
right and i agree and that and and he

1996
01:18:18,310 --> 01:18:16,640
doesn't have any guilt over that he's

1997
01:18:20,790 --> 01:18:18,320
not apologetic

1998
01:18:22,390 --> 01:18:20,800
for that right and that and lies the

1999
01:18:25,830 --> 01:18:22,400
problem whether

2000
01:18:28,390 --> 01:18:25,840
he created the mj-12 documents i don't

2001
01:18:30,870 --> 01:18:28,400
care he probably did what he did with

2002
01:18:33,030 --> 01:18:30,880
linda moulton howe wrong right what he

2003
01:18:34,950 --> 01:18:33,040
did without you know okay but when we

2004
01:18:36,070 --> 01:18:34,960
talk about specifically about paul

2005
01:18:38,790 --> 01:18:36,080
benowitz

2006
01:18:41,350 --> 01:18:38,800
he was at a crossroads and could have

2007
01:18:43,510 --> 01:18:41,360
made the right decision and he didn't

2008
01:18:46,149 --> 01:18:43,520
and and if he wants to say that paul

2009
01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:46,159
benowitz was unstable and that was

2010
01:18:52,310 --> 01:18:48,960
paul's part you know what he had

2011
01:18:54,630 --> 01:18:52,320
uh he played a part in in the downfall

2012
01:18:57,590 --> 01:18:54,640
of of paul benowitz in the way that he

2013
01:19:00,870 --> 01:18:57,600
came unwound and that part of richard

2014
01:19:02,790 --> 01:19:00,880
well there's no excuse for it and

2015
01:19:05,030 --> 01:19:02,800
we're gonna we're gonna always look at

2016
01:19:07,110 --> 01:19:05,040
him that way i don't care how nice of a

2017
01:19:08,470 --> 01:19:07,120
guy he is and how much ice cream he buys

2018
01:19:11,110 --> 01:19:08,480
his grandkids

2019
01:19:13,910 --> 01:19:11,120
you know that that situation there and

2020
01:19:16,950 --> 01:19:13,920
and i hit him with it directly and he he

2021
01:19:19,110 --> 01:19:16,960
just you know i was following orders ah

2022
01:19:22,709 --> 01:19:19,120
dude stop with that

2023
01:19:23,830 --> 01:19:22,719
you know and and that's my take uh mj uh

2024
01:19:25,910 --> 01:19:23,840
for you

2025
01:19:27,910 --> 01:19:25,920
do you think that he he will ever step

2026
01:19:30,390 --> 01:19:27,920
forward and and accept the

2027
01:19:31,830 --> 01:19:30,400
responsibility

2028
01:19:33,669 --> 01:19:31,840
well you know that's a tough question

2029
01:19:35,590 --> 01:19:33,679
like i i can't i'm not gonna i'm not

2030
01:19:38,470 --> 01:19:35,600
here to sort of absolve richard doughty

2031
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:38,480
um yeah and and i i know you're not i

2032
01:19:41,030 --> 01:19:39,679
agree with you i definitely agree with

2033
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:41,040
you in that you know he's definitely

2034
01:19:44,550 --> 01:19:43,199
made a lot of mistakes um and he's

2035
01:19:45,910 --> 01:19:44,560
definitely and he's definitely

2036
01:19:47,990 --> 01:19:45,920
responsible for those mistakes right

2037
01:19:48,870 --> 01:19:48,000
those were his decisions

2038
01:19:51,590 --> 01:19:48,880
um

2039
01:19:57,590 --> 01:19:51,600
i think

2040
01:19:59,350 --> 01:19:57,600
is again we've really there's a lot of

2041
01:20:01,590 --> 01:19:59,360
storytelling and mythology around this

2042
01:20:04,630 --> 01:20:01,600
whole moment you know even you know when

2043
01:20:06,470 --> 01:20:04,640
william moore came forward to talk about

2044
01:20:08,630 --> 01:20:06,480
the whole bennowitz affair

2045
01:20:11,350 --> 01:20:08,640
um william moore even admitted that that

2046
01:20:12,950 --> 01:20:11,360
bennowitz was sort of a little unstable

2047
01:20:14,310 --> 01:20:12,960
and definitely ran into situations half

2048
01:20:15,830 --> 01:20:14,320
cocked with half d half of the

2049
01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:15,840
information and sort of

2050
01:20:19,270 --> 01:20:18,239
ran to its full logical conclusion with

2051
01:20:20,630 --> 01:20:19,280
sort of

2052
01:20:22,870 --> 01:20:20,640
no information

2053
01:20:25,350 --> 01:20:22,880
um so you know i agree with you i think

2054
01:20:27,270 --> 01:20:25,360
i think richard doty should have

2055
01:20:29,990 --> 01:20:27,280
told paul benowitz what

2056
01:20:31,750 --> 01:20:30,000
um what was actually going on but at

2057
01:20:33,669 --> 01:20:31,760
that point you know would have

2058
01:20:35,750 --> 01:20:33,679
been with listen to him

2059
01:20:37,910 --> 01:20:35,760
you know i i don't know i didn't know

2060
01:20:41,030 --> 01:20:37,920
paul benowitz yeah i know

2061
01:20:42,790 --> 01:20:41,040
let's take a let's take a break

2062
01:20:45,669 --> 01:20:42,800
we just yeah well we just managed to

2063
01:20:48,870 --> 01:20:45,679
blow right through a commercial break

2064
01:20:51,030 --> 01:20:48,880
and i've got to nearly apologize to the

2065
01:20:52,550 --> 01:20:51,040
network for that i did it let's take a

2066
01:20:54,790 --> 01:20:52,560
break right here

2067
01:20:56,070 --> 01:20:54,800
i guess tonight mj banayas now mj when

2068
01:20:57,669 --> 01:20:56,080
we come back we're going to pick right

2069
01:20:59,430 --> 01:20:57,679
up or we're leaving off with richard

2070
01:21:01,270 --> 01:20:59,440
dodie this is fade to black we're

2071
01:21:03,950 --> 01:21:01,280
talking about his new book the ufo

2072
01:21:39,070 --> 01:21:03,960
people stay with us

2073
01:21:43,990 --> 01:21:42,149
[Applause]

2074
01:21:45,910 --> 01:21:44,000
all right welcome back fade to black

2075
01:21:47,750 --> 01:21:45,920
amazing conversation going on right now

2076
01:21:51,030 --> 01:21:47,760
mj binnis is here we're talking about

2077
01:21:54,149 --> 01:21:51,040
his new book it's called the ufo people

2078
01:21:55,510 --> 01:21:54,159
and mj really quick uh the book is

2079
01:21:58,709 --> 01:21:55,520
available

2080
01:22:00,390 --> 01:21:58,719
for full release when is it tomorrow

2081
01:22:02,149 --> 01:22:00,400
yeah hopefully right now the kindle

2082
01:22:04,629 --> 01:22:02,159
version is out so if you wanted to

2083
01:22:07,270 --> 01:22:04,639
purchase it for your amazon kindle uh

2084
01:22:10,790 --> 01:22:07,280
you can go to amazon now and find it or

2085
01:22:12,950 --> 01:22:10,800
you can visit my website www.mj

2086
01:22:15,510 --> 01:22:12,960
or tarabscura.net

2087
01:22:17,430 --> 01:22:15,520
and you can sort of find the links there

2088
01:22:19,590 --> 01:22:17,440
the paperback should be out either

2089
01:22:21,270 --> 01:22:19,600
tomorrow or the day after tomorrow so

2090
01:22:22,950 --> 01:22:21,280
it'll show up on amazon within the next

2091
01:22:26,550 --> 01:22:22,960
day or two hopefully yeah there you go

2092
01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:26,560
it's an amazing read amazing read now uh

2093
01:22:31,750 --> 01:22:28,880
the uh the situation with dodie picking

2094
01:22:33,350 --> 01:22:31,760
up where we left off yeah yeah is this

2095
01:22:40,149 --> 01:22:33,360
it's not

2096
01:22:42,950 --> 01:22:40,159
um what he was doing it wasn't just with

2097
01:22:45,750 --> 01:22:42,960
paul benowitz but it was with william

2098
01:22:49,030 --> 01:22:45,760
moore it was uh he pulled linda moulton

2099
01:22:52,470 --> 01:22:49,040
howe into this you have of course jamie

2100
01:22:56,470 --> 01:22:52,480
chanda ray you have a tv show or two

2101
01:22:59,910 --> 01:22:56,480
um you have the mj 12 documents and all

2102
01:23:01,750 --> 01:22:59,920
of this was flooding into and not only

2103
01:23:04,149 --> 01:23:01,760
what i just mentioned there but there

2104
01:23:07,110 --> 01:23:04,159
were a whole series of documents that

2105
01:23:09,430 --> 01:23:07,120
william moore started to produce

2106
01:23:11,830 --> 01:23:09,440
and this information and disinformation

2107
01:23:14,550 --> 01:23:11,840
was flooding into the ufo community

2108
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:14,560
william moore was not

2109
01:23:19,189 --> 01:23:16,960
a small person in the ufo community the

2110
01:23:22,149 --> 01:23:19,199
guy was spoken every single conference

2111
01:23:26,070 --> 01:23:22,159
he was cranking books out and he had

2112
01:23:28,550 --> 01:23:26,080
one sensational thing after another

2113
01:23:32,550 --> 01:23:28,560
that he was uh

2114
01:23:35,030 --> 01:23:32,560
flooding into the ufo community and it's

2115
01:23:36,790 --> 01:23:35,040
not uh some simple situation like it was

2116
01:23:37,750 --> 01:23:36,800
with paul benowitz and it was taking

2117
01:23:39,750 --> 01:23:37,760
orders

2118
01:23:41,750 --> 01:23:39,760
you know that's what he was doing and

2119
01:23:45,110 --> 01:23:41,760
that's that's the part where

2120
01:23:47,990 --> 01:23:45,120
uh all of us with doty need to

2121
01:23:51,189 --> 01:23:48,000
focus on today in the ufo community and

2122
01:23:53,990 --> 01:23:51,199
what could also be going on right now

2123
01:23:55,830 --> 01:23:54,000
and learn from the past and and learn to

2124
01:23:56,870 --> 01:23:55,840
recognize when this could be going on

2125
01:24:00,709 --> 01:23:56,880
right

2126
01:24:03,430 --> 01:24:00,719
mention it in the book but i think if

2127
01:24:05,590 --> 01:24:03,440
you know for any of your um fader knots

2128
01:24:08,390 --> 01:24:05,600
who are are interested in in this sort

2129
01:24:10,070 --> 01:24:08,400
of moment of ufo history um something

2130
01:24:12,629 --> 01:24:10,080
that really is important to look at is

2131
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:12,639
something called the pratt tapes uh p r

2132
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:13,840
a t t

2133
01:24:17,590 --> 01:24:16,400
pratt tapes and it's basically a series

2134
01:24:20,709 --> 01:24:17,600
of documents they're all available

2135
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:20,719
online pdf format um on google so you

2136
01:24:25,030 --> 01:24:22,320
just google them

2137
01:24:27,430 --> 01:24:25,040
but basically it was a collection of

2138
01:24:30,390 --> 01:24:27,440
documents that william moore as well as

2139
01:24:32,950 --> 01:24:30,400
a couple other people put together

2140
01:24:36,470 --> 01:24:32,960
mainly um

2141
01:24:38,229 --> 01:24:36,480
i think bob pratt um bill pratt from um

2142
01:24:40,870 --> 01:24:38,239
no yeah bob pratt from the national

2143
01:24:42,070 --> 01:24:40,880
choir they're writing a book

2144
01:24:45,030 --> 01:24:42,080
and it's

2145
01:24:47,990 --> 01:24:45,040
sort of predates mj 12 and this whole

2146
01:24:49,750 --> 01:24:48,000
debacle by a couple years um but as as

2147
01:24:50,950 --> 01:24:49,760
your listeners and any researchers kind

2148
01:24:53,270 --> 01:24:50,960
of go through these documents they

2149
01:24:55,350 --> 01:24:53,280
quickly realize that a lot of the stuff

2150
01:24:58,950 --> 01:24:55,360
a lot of the ideas that came out in the

2151
01:25:02,070 --> 01:24:58,960
1980s regarding ufos sort of existed in

2152
01:25:05,270 --> 01:25:02,080
a sort of a novel or an idea for a novel

2153
01:25:07,189 --> 01:25:05,280
that never made it out um and and the

2154
01:25:09,430 --> 01:25:07,199
pratt tapes are this interesting little

2155
01:25:11,750 --> 01:25:09,440
piece of ufo history that we don't

2156
01:25:14,790 --> 01:25:11,760
really talk about um but when you

2157
01:25:16,229 --> 01:25:14,800
compare it to sort of any other

2158
01:25:17,750 --> 01:25:16,239
modern day let's say or even

2159
01:25:19,350 --> 01:25:17,760
contemporary today

2160
01:25:21,110 --> 01:25:19,360
you know ufo

2161
01:25:22,790 --> 01:25:21,120
let's say organizations or groups or

2162
01:25:25,189 --> 01:25:22,800
whatever you can sort of draw a lot of

2163
01:25:29,110 --> 01:25:25,199
similarities between someone sort of

2164
01:25:31,669 --> 01:25:29,120
creative project um and and um

2165
01:25:34,229 --> 01:25:31,679
wanting to to to sell copies of a book

2166
01:25:36,709 --> 01:25:34,239
or come up with some novel idea and then

2167
01:25:38,470 --> 01:25:36,719
linking it to what becomes accepted as

2168
01:25:40,070 --> 01:25:38,480
sort of quote unquote real

2169
01:25:41,430 --> 01:25:40,080
there's a significant link for example

2170
01:25:43,510 --> 01:25:41,440
between

2171
01:25:46,470 --> 01:25:43,520
the pratt tapes and and the idea for the

2172
01:25:49,350 --> 01:25:46,480
novel uh and the mj12 documents which

2173
01:25:52,149 --> 01:25:49,360
surfaced significantly later in time and

2174
01:25:54,149 --> 01:25:52,159
so let's let's get specific on a couple

2175
01:25:57,270 --> 01:25:54,159
of things the original the working title

2176
01:26:00,550 --> 01:25:57,280
for the book was project aquarius

2177
01:26:03,830 --> 01:26:00,560
and uh which for those that have you

2178
01:26:04,870 --> 01:26:03,840
know study ufology and get into this uh

2179
01:26:06,550 --> 01:26:04,880
that

2180
01:26:09,189 --> 01:26:06,560
they know about what i'm talking about

2181
01:26:11,510 --> 01:26:09,199
but for everybody else the pratt tapes

2182
01:26:14,790 --> 01:26:11,520
and what was going on there

2183
01:26:16,390 --> 01:26:14,800
uh is is a a good point of research but

2184
01:26:18,149 --> 01:26:16,400
there's another

2185
01:26:21,189 --> 01:26:18,159
aspect to this and we got to talk about

2186
01:26:22,629 --> 01:26:21,199
richard helm too as well and how the cia

2187
01:26:25,669 --> 01:26:22,639
could have been

2188
01:26:29,830 --> 01:26:25,679
involved in this but the

2189
01:26:32,950 --> 01:26:29,840
uh magic with the j the magic 12

2190
01:26:34,950 --> 01:26:32,960
was the centerpiece of project aquarius

2191
01:26:37,350 --> 01:26:34,960
right mj12

2192
01:26:40,310 --> 01:26:37,360
yeah the book was even renamed to magic

2193
01:26:42,790 --> 01:26:40,320
12. it was renamed to magic 12. and

2194
01:26:44,790 --> 01:26:42,800
richard dodie uh was a part of all of

2195
01:26:48,310 --> 01:26:44,800
this and that's what well that's what

2196
01:26:50,629 --> 01:26:48,320
pratt says dodie is in denial about this

2197
01:26:54,070 --> 01:26:50,639
but what it sets up for everybody is

2198
01:26:56,950 --> 01:26:54,080
that richard doty certainly was not just

2199
01:27:01,189 --> 01:26:56,960
some sergeant in the air force this was

2200
01:27:05,189 --> 01:27:01,199
a guy that wanted uh fame apparently

2201
01:27:07,510 --> 01:27:05,199
uh creating this ufo enigma around uh

2202
01:27:10,229 --> 01:27:07,520
magic 12 and mj 12

2203
01:27:12,870 --> 01:27:10,239
and this entire storyline that ended up

2204
01:27:13,990 --> 01:27:12,880
evolving anyway through jamie chanda ray

2205
01:27:16,229 --> 01:27:14,000
right

2206
01:27:17,510 --> 01:27:16,239
well i'm yeah listen i can't i'm not

2207
01:27:19,110 --> 01:27:17,520
going to speak for richard dodie here so

2208
01:27:20,870 --> 01:27:19,120
i'm going to say alleged fame only

2209
01:27:22,149 --> 01:27:20,880
because i i don't want to i i'm not

2210
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:22,159
going to

2211
01:27:30,149 --> 01:27:28,229
in our opinions of of of

2212
01:27:32,790 --> 01:27:30,159
sort of maybe the motivations of richard

2213
01:27:34,550 --> 01:27:32,800
dodie i i don't know necessarily 100

2214
01:27:37,270 --> 01:27:34,560
well hold on hold on hold on let me just

2215
01:27:40,550 --> 01:27:37,280
say this i'm not suggesting that mj what

2216
01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:40,560
i'm saying is that this story uh

2217
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:42,400
this uh

2218
01:27:48,870 --> 01:27:46,080
uh this period has been laid out that

2219
01:27:53,030 --> 01:27:48,880
that is probably what was actually going

2220
01:27:55,270 --> 01:27:53,040
on and project aquarius if it was if you

2221
01:27:56,550 --> 01:27:55,280
can believe pratt and the national

2222
01:27:59,189 --> 01:27:56,560
enquirer

2223
01:28:01,990 --> 01:27:59,199
and what is going on then the story was

2224
01:28:02,870 --> 01:28:02,000
already written before

2225
01:28:07,830 --> 01:28:02,880
uh

2226
01:28:09,669 --> 01:28:07,840
documents came out and the aviary and

2227
01:28:10,950 --> 01:28:09,679
everything else much later that's what

2228
01:28:12,950 --> 01:28:10,960
i'm suggesting

2229
01:28:15,510 --> 01:28:12,960
yes and and i think that that's that's a

2230
01:28:17,830 --> 01:28:15,520
sort of a pretty fair sort of hypothesis

2231
01:28:19,189 --> 01:28:17,840
for sure i think i think we can kind of

2232
01:28:20,149 --> 01:28:19,199
i can definitely follow you down that

2233
01:28:22,229 --> 01:28:20,159
road

2234
01:28:24,470 --> 01:28:22,239
and but dodie

2235
01:28:26,550 --> 01:28:24,480
uh is in denial about that that he

2236
01:28:27,350 --> 01:28:26,560
didn't even know pratt

2237
01:28:29,669 --> 01:28:27,360
now

2238
01:28:31,830 --> 01:28:29,679
yeah we've got a situation here who do

2239
01:28:33,510 --> 01:28:31,840
we believe

2240
01:28:35,430 --> 01:28:33,520
right and that's that is the big

2241
01:28:37,430 --> 01:28:35,440
question and i think that's that's the

2242
01:28:40,790 --> 01:28:37,440
really the broader question of all like

2243
01:28:42,229 --> 01:28:40,800
ufo discourse and all the the ufo

2244
01:28:43,510 --> 01:28:42,239
community in general like who do we

2245
01:28:46,790 --> 01:28:43,520
believe right

2246
01:28:49,189 --> 01:28:46,800
um because there's we live even today in

2247
01:28:50,709 --> 01:28:49,199
a world of many people within the ufo

2248
01:28:54,070 --> 01:28:50,719
community that we can ask the same

2249
01:28:55,590 --> 01:28:54,080
question of right um can we believe them

2250
01:28:56,870 --> 01:28:55,600
um and this links back to what we were

2251
01:28:58,390 --> 01:28:56,880
talking about earlier right this idea

2252
01:29:00,390 --> 01:28:58,400
that there is no

2253
01:29:04,070 --> 01:29:00,400
hierarchy or established sort of ivory

2254
01:29:05,830 --> 01:29:04,080
tower or or governing body of ufology um

2255
01:29:08,390 --> 01:29:05,840
everyone's kind of left to their own

2256
01:29:11,270 --> 01:29:08,400
devices to make decisions on their own

2257
01:29:13,030 --> 01:29:11,280
um and it a lot of times boils down to

2258
01:29:15,030 --> 01:29:13,040
just simply who you trust and who you

2259
01:29:17,350 --> 01:29:15,040
believe and and it doesn't always hinge

2260
01:29:19,910 --> 01:29:17,360
upon facts or evidence sometimes it does

2261
01:29:22,070 --> 01:29:19,920
for sure but but not all the time

2262
01:29:25,189 --> 01:29:22,080
now you uh

2263
01:29:25,990 --> 01:29:25,199
before you started to interview richard

2264
01:29:28,790 --> 01:29:26,000
uh

2265
01:29:32,229 --> 01:29:28,800
you were in correspondence with somebody

2266
01:29:33,750 --> 01:29:32,239
i'll let you uh disclose that

2267
01:29:35,750 --> 01:29:33,760
or not

2268
01:29:37,270 --> 01:29:35,760
giving you a warning

2269
01:29:39,669 --> 01:29:37,280
about richard

2270
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:39,679
uh going into this tell us about that

2271
01:29:44,070 --> 01:29:41,040
exchange

2272
01:29:46,790 --> 01:29:44,080
sure so um uh let's just say i called up

2273
01:29:48,870 --> 01:29:46,800
a friend within the ufo community um i

2274
01:29:50,310 --> 01:29:48,880
went called up i i sent him a message

2275
01:29:52,790 --> 01:29:50,320
and sort of

2276
01:29:55,350 --> 01:29:52,800
as i was putting this book book together

2277
01:29:57,990 --> 01:29:55,360
i wanted to include some interviews um

2278
01:30:00,229 --> 01:29:58,000
with some sort of some of the ufologies

2279
01:30:01,030 --> 01:30:00,239
um you know villains and heroes let's

2280
01:30:03,510 --> 01:30:01,040
say

2281
01:30:05,590 --> 01:30:03,520
and um i wanted to talk about i wanted

2282
01:30:06,470 --> 01:30:05,600
to talk to richard doty and and very

2283
01:30:09,510 --> 01:30:06,480
quickly

2284
01:30:11,350 --> 01:30:09,520
um this person sort of

2285
01:30:13,430 --> 01:30:11,360
said you know you know yeah that that's

2286
01:30:15,510 --> 01:30:13,440
a great idea but you just you can't

2287
01:30:17,590 --> 01:30:15,520
trust anything he says and and you know

2288
01:30:21,030 --> 01:30:17,600
this per you know he's basically gonna

2289
01:30:23,510 --> 01:30:21,040
play you and and suddenly

2290
01:30:26,390 --> 01:30:23,520
a very reasonable and rational member of

2291
01:30:27,910 --> 01:30:26,400
the ufo community who i trust um and and

2292
01:30:29,510 --> 01:30:27,920
not only that who who is a

2293
01:30:32,629 --> 01:30:29,520
well-established researcher and well

2294
01:30:33,750 --> 01:30:32,639
respected um very quickly sort of said

2295
01:30:35,669 --> 01:30:33,760
listen i don't want to be involved in

2296
01:30:37,590 --> 01:30:35,679
this like i don't want i don't want my

2297
01:30:38,790 --> 01:30:37,600
name in regards to this or in relation

2298
01:30:40,790 --> 01:30:38,800
to this so i had to keep it totally

2299
01:30:43,830 --> 01:30:40,800
anonymous um but

2300
01:30:45,910 --> 01:30:43,840
this individual and i had multiple

2301
01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:45,920
like dozens of conversations back and

2302
01:30:50,390 --> 01:30:49,120
forth uh concerning dodie um and and and

2303
01:30:52,629 --> 01:30:50,400
whether he should be part of the book

2304
01:30:55,189 --> 01:30:52,639
and and how to frame it um so you got a

2305
01:30:56,790 --> 01:30:55,199
little taste of of the the the face it

2306
01:30:59,350 --> 01:30:56,800
was a facebook messenger sort of back

2307
01:31:03,110 --> 01:30:59,360
and forth that that we had

2308
01:31:05,510 --> 01:31:03,120
the uh the part of this uh when it when

2309
01:31:08,709 --> 01:31:05,520
it comes to dodie and

2310
01:31:12,229 --> 01:31:08,719
uh the possibility of him

2311
01:31:15,590 --> 01:31:12,239
um how do i say this snowing you right

2312
01:31:18,070 --> 01:31:15,600
and uh we know that uh we've had these

2313
01:31:20,149 --> 01:31:18,080
same comments about him over the years

2314
01:31:21,750 --> 01:31:20,159
now that you've got the book out you've

2315
01:31:23,350 --> 01:31:21,760
had your conversations with them and

2316
01:31:25,430 --> 01:31:23,360
things do you think that there's the

2317
01:31:26,149 --> 01:31:25,440
possibility that maybe

2318
01:31:27,750 --> 01:31:26,159
uh

2319
01:31:29,430 --> 01:31:27,760
you you might have been played just a

2320
01:31:32,390 --> 01:31:29,440
little bit

2321
01:31:36,070 --> 01:31:32,400
oh and i admit to that in my book um i i

2322
01:31:37,510 --> 01:31:36,080
i refer to it as um

2323
01:31:40,229 --> 01:31:37,520
i feel like

2324
01:31:41,750 --> 01:31:40,239
what was it like i'm the hen um and and

2325
01:31:43,350 --> 01:31:41,760
he's the fox right and he's starting to

2326
01:31:45,430 --> 01:31:43,360
sniff around the hen house right like i

2327
01:31:48,629 --> 01:31:45,440
just of course i have this sort of

2328
01:31:50,390 --> 01:31:48,639
anxiety that that um

2329
01:31:53,510 --> 01:31:50,400
that a lot of the things we talked about

2330
01:31:55,990 --> 01:31:53,520
were untrue or or partially true or a

2331
01:31:57,830 --> 01:31:56,000
mixture right of truth and fiction

2332
01:31:59,750 --> 01:31:57,840
so so of course

2333
01:32:01,030 --> 01:31:59,760
now there's nothing really in the book

2334
01:32:03,110 --> 01:32:01,040
that um

2335
01:32:04,709 --> 01:32:03,120
that he says really that's that's that's

2336
01:32:06,229 --> 01:32:04,719
sort of not generally already accepted

2337
01:32:07,990 --> 01:32:06,239
within the ufo community there is one

2338
01:32:09,990 --> 01:32:08,000
part that's very interesting where he he

2339
01:32:13,910 --> 01:32:10,000
explains or he tries to convince me i

2340
01:32:17,430 --> 01:32:13,920
suppose that he wasn't falcon in the

2341
01:32:19,669 --> 01:32:17,440
famous 1988 ufo's cover-up live or

2342
01:32:21,669 --> 01:32:19,679
whatever it was called right that 80s

2343
01:32:24,149 --> 01:32:21,679
um live show that was hosted by mike

2344
01:32:26,070 --> 01:32:24,159
farrell from mash um

2345
01:32:28,870 --> 01:32:26,080
he he sort of sits he sort of informed

2346
01:32:31,030 --> 01:32:28,880
me multiple times and he sort of

2347
01:32:33,350 --> 01:32:31,040
tried to to i suppose get me to buy it

2348
01:32:35,110 --> 01:32:33,360
let's say that he wasn't rich or dodie

2349
01:32:37,430 --> 01:32:35,120
um or sorry he wasn't sorry he wasn't

2350
01:32:39,189 --> 01:32:37,440
that he wasn't falcon uh during that

2351
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:39,199
presentation but when you watch it like

2352
01:32:42,950 --> 01:32:40,960
you can watch it on youtube for example

2353
01:32:44,950 --> 01:32:42,960
like you you you look at this person sit

2354
01:32:47,110 --> 01:32:44,960
there and while their faces is sort of

2355
01:32:48,950 --> 01:32:47,120
blacked out um you can hear them speak

2356
01:32:49,910 --> 01:32:48,960
you can see sort of the wire frame of

2357
01:32:51,030 --> 01:32:49,920
the glass like you're saying they're

2358
01:32:53,030 --> 01:32:51,040
being like oh my god it's richard

2359
01:32:54,390 --> 01:32:53,040
doughty like it totally is richard dodie

2360
01:32:56,709 --> 01:32:54,400
what is he talking about like does he

2361
01:32:59,669 --> 01:32:56,719
actually think i'm gonna believe this

2362
01:33:02,149 --> 01:32:59,679
right um so so maybe that's the one time

2363
01:33:04,310 --> 01:33:02,159
i maybe i i was sort of like man i'm

2364
01:33:06,870 --> 01:33:04,320
totally he's he's just flat out lying to

2365
01:33:08,629 --> 01:33:06,880
me at this point but listen he says it

2366
01:33:10,470 --> 01:33:08,639
wasn't him he says he can prove it

2367
01:33:12,950 --> 01:33:10,480
because he has records from his sort of

2368
01:33:15,430 --> 01:33:12,960
police academy uh in new mexico that

2369
01:33:17,750 --> 01:33:15,440
says he was off training um you know at

2370
01:33:18,709 --> 01:33:17,760
the time when that was filmed and and i

2371
01:33:20,550 --> 01:33:18,719
don't know

2372
01:33:21,270 --> 01:33:20,560
like i said you're kind of laughed in

2373
01:33:23,110 --> 01:33:21,280
this

2374
01:33:26,550 --> 01:33:23,120
you just don't know what to believe well

2375
01:33:29,990 --> 01:33:26,560
and the the the problem with it is

2376
01:33:32,950 --> 01:33:30,000
he states as he has said to me

2377
01:33:35,110 --> 01:33:32,960
that richard helms was falcon head of

2378
01:33:37,590 --> 01:33:35,120
the cia yeah he told me the same thing

2379
01:33:40,550 --> 01:33:37,600
yeah right right and uh

2380
01:33:42,390 --> 01:33:40,560
that ain't richard helms

2381
01:33:44,950 --> 01:33:42,400
certainly not right

2382
01:33:47,669 --> 01:33:44,960
so now where you know what are we left

2383
01:33:49,669 --> 01:33:47,679
with here i mean you you see the wire

2384
01:33:51,189 --> 01:33:49,679
rim glasses you see all of that there

2385
01:33:53,910 --> 01:33:51,199
and you know i don't know if it's

2386
01:33:55,669 --> 01:33:53,920
richard but i can tell you who it isn't

2387
01:33:57,510 --> 01:33:55,679
it's not helms

2388
01:33:58,709 --> 01:33:57,520
right and but again that that's that's

2389
01:34:02,470 --> 01:33:58,719
really the

2390
01:34:04,790 --> 01:34:02,480
that's so it's so quintessentially like

2391
01:34:06,790 --> 01:34:04,800
ufo community right um

2392
01:34:07,990 --> 01:34:06,800
you know when you talk about who falcon

2393
01:34:10,070 --> 01:34:08,000
was

2394
01:34:11,430 --> 01:34:10,080
does that mean every time anyone ever

2395
01:34:12,950 --> 01:34:11,440
discussed falcon they were talking to

2396
01:34:14,870 --> 01:34:12,960
the same person or the same individual i

2397
01:34:16,229 --> 01:34:14,880
mean how many times do you have you know

2398
01:34:17,669 --> 01:34:16,239
emails from people within the ufo

2399
01:34:19,430 --> 01:34:17,679
community who claim to be someone and it

2400
01:34:22,550 --> 01:34:19,440
turns out they're not or they're playing

2401
01:34:24,950 --> 01:34:22,560
you or it's just you know um

2402
01:34:26,950 --> 01:34:24,960
someone someone messing around and like

2403
01:34:28,310 --> 01:34:26,960
you know even in the 1960s when john

2404
01:34:30,149 --> 01:34:28,320
keel was dealing with this you know he

2405
01:34:32,470 --> 01:34:30,159
would often get crank calls from from

2406
01:34:35,750 --> 01:34:32,480
ufo enthusiasts and fanatics pretending

2407
01:34:37,830 --> 01:34:35,760
to be you know aliens from from venus um

2408
01:34:40,709 --> 01:34:37,840
so you know this is a common sort of

2409
01:34:43,750 --> 01:34:40,719
recurring historical motif that runs

2410
01:34:46,870 --> 01:34:43,760
through ufo history here well and this

2411
01:34:49,030 --> 01:34:46,880
is uh this and this is the point uh that

2412
01:34:51,750 --> 01:34:49,040
uh you you're not only making the book

2413
01:34:54,870 --> 01:34:51,760
but i certainly speak about this often

2414
01:34:56,149 --> 01:34:54,880
which is this is exactly why when when

2415
01:35:00,470 --> 01:34:56,159
bill moore

2416
01:35:03,910 --> 01:35:00,480
uh in 1989 ran out the back door

2417
01:35:05,590 --> 01:35:03,920
uh for his life right and

2418
01:35:08,950 --> 01:35:05,600
and split

2419
01:35:11,990 --> 01:35:08,960
that he left a room full of the top top

2420
01:35:14,470 --> 01:35:12,000
people in ufology that he was in contact

2421
01:35:16,550 --> 01:35:14,480
with that all uh

2422
01:35:17,750 --> 01:35:16,560
were also co-dependent on his

2423
01:35:19,669 --> 01:35:17,760
information

2424
01:35:22,629 --> 01:35:19,679
uh there's no question about any of that

2425
01:35:24,950 --> 01:35:22,639
he had built relationships and suddenly

2426
01:35:28,470 --> 01:35:24,960
he cut everybody off at the knees

2427
01:35:33,270 --> 01:35:28,480
and he stated why right disinformation

2428
01:35:36,229 --> 01:35:33,280
cia uh the uh the uh the air force and

2429
01:35:39,110 --> 01:35:36,239
dodie any he named everything and and

2430
01:35:42,390 --> 01:35:39,120
laid it out for everybody and then split

2431
01:35:45,350 --> 01:35:42,400
which is exactly why we don't trust

2432
01:35:48,149 --> 01:35:45,360
the pentagon this is why we don't trust

2433
01:35:50,950 --> 01:35:48,159
the military industrial complex today

2434
01:35:53,430 --> 01:35:50,960
and it'll be a long time before that

2435
01:35:56,790 --> 01:35:53,440
that pain is ever healed and i'm gonna

2436
01:35:58,470 --> 01:35:56,800
read a quote from you from the book okay

2437
01:36:01,830 --> 01:35:58,480
you state here

2438
01:36:03,430 --> 01:36:01,840
the ufo subculture has a certain feeling

2439
01:36:05,229 --> 01:36:03,440
towards the government the military

2440
01:36:08,149 --> 01:36:05,239
industrial complex and the

2441
01:36:09,910 --> 01:36:08,159
establishments of authority such as the

2442
01:36:12,550 --> 01:36:09,920
corporate and scientific communities

2443
01:36:14,550 --> 01:36:12,560
that the feeling is that they are not

2444
01:36:16,950 --> 01:36:14,560
worthy of trust

2445
01:36:19,830 --> 01:36:16,960
compare conspiracy theories alleged

2446
01:36:22,550 --> 01:36:19,840
whistleblowers and leaked top secret

2447
01:36:25,350 --> 01:36:22,560
documents all lend to this ideological

2448
01:36:26,550 --> 01:36:25,360
buildup of opposition to elite power

2449
01:36:28,629 --> 01:36:26,560
structures

2450
01:36:30,310 --> 01:36:28,639
and the reason for that

2451
01:36:33,270 --> 01:36:30,320
is richard doty

2452
01:36:35,910 --> 01:36:33,280
a large chunk of it right there and you

2453
01:36:37,750 --> 01:36:35,920
state it really well

2454
01:36:39,830 --> 01:36:37,760
why should we trust

2455
01:36:43,590 --> 01:36:39,840
things today when it comes out of

2456
01:36:46,390 --> 01:36:43,600
washington dc or the pentagon or the cia

2457
01:36:48,310 --> 01:36:46,400
today when we know and we've been warned

2458
01:36:49,830 --> 01:36:48,320
about the past

2459
01:36:52,629 --> 01:36:49,840
right and this is this is sort of a

2460
01:36:55,430 --> 01:36:52,639
common this is a very common problem

2461
01:36:57,750 --> 01:36:55,440
within even like you say today in in ufo

2462
01:36:59,990 --> 01:36:57,760
discourse um

2463
01:37:01,669 --> 01:37:00,000
we we require

2464
01:37:04,070 --> 01:37:01,679
information from

2465
01:37:05,910 --> 01:37:04,080
the government such as leaked gun camera

2466
01:37:08,870 --> 01:37:05,920
footage um which has sort of been made

2467
01:37:11,189 --> 01:37:08,880
popular very recently um as as sort of

2468
01:37:14,790 --> 01:37:11,199
new ufo data that we can sink our teeth

2469
01:37:17,430 --> 01:37:14,800
into um so we need them on one hand yet

2470
01:37:20,070 --> 01:37:17,440
in the same breath we we don't know if

2471
01:37:21,270 --> 01:37:20,080
that information is is valid or accurate

2472
01:37:22,790 --> 01:37:21,280
um

2473
01:37:24,629 --> 01:37:22,800
and this has been this is this i'll be

2474
01:37:26,870 --> 01:37:24,639
honest like this kind of goes even

2475
01:37:29,510 --> 01:37:26,880
before richard dodie you know kehoe had

2476
01:37:31,990 --> 01:37:29,520
the same problems um keel and gray

2477
01:37:35,030 --> 01:37:32,000
barker talk about the men in black um

2478
01:37:38,390 --> 01:37:35,040
and and this sort of long running again

2479
01:37:40,070 --> 01:37:38,400
mistrust of the government um it's it's

2480
01:37:42,070 --> 01:37:40,080
i think keel even points out you know uh

2481
01:37:43,510 --> 01:37:42,080
the cia hates the fbi the fbi hates the

2482
01:37:44,870 --> 01:37:43,520
cia and the phone company hates

2483
01:37:47,590 --> 01:37:44,880
everybody right he famously says in the

2484
01:37:48,390 --> 01:37:47,600
mothman prophecies um so you have this

2485
01:37:50,350 --> 01:37:48,400
long

2486
01:37:52,070 --> 01:37:50,360
kind of drawn out

2487
01:37:54,229 --> 01:37:52,080
anti-government

2488
01:37:56,310 --> 01:37:54,239
vibe within the ufo community yet at the

2489
01:37:58,310 --> 01:37:56,320
same time the ufo community needs them

2490
01:38:00,790 --> 01:37:58,320
and and you see this discrepancy so

2491
01:38:03,669 --> 01:38:00,800
clearly today um within the ufo

2492
01:38:06,629 --> 01:38:03,679
community this whole atip asap

2493
01:38:09,350 --> 01:38:06,639
to the stars academy thing is is this

2494
01:38:11,590 --> 01:38:09,360
perfect storm right of of you know this

2495
01:38:14,149 --> 01:38:11,600
legacy of mistrust towards the

2496
01:38:16,550 --> 01:38:14,159
government um on one hand

2497
01:38:18,229 --> 01:38:16,560
you know we feel like sections or

2498
01:38:20,310 --> 01:38:18,239
individuals within the government

2499
01:38:22,310 --> 01:38:20,320
certain compartments are are are here to

2500
01:38:24,870 --> 01:38:22,320
help us and certain compartments in the

2501
01:38:26,709 --> 01:38:24,880
government are here to hinder us um and

2502
01:38:28,709 --> 01:38:26,719
they're constantly fighting with each

2503
01:38:30,550 --> 01:38:28,719
other and and some people like lou

2504
01:38:31,669 --> 01:38:30,560
elizondo are out to bring the truth out

2505
01:38:33,430 --> 01:38:31,679
because they're one of the good guys

2506
01:38:34,709 --> 01:38:33,440
from the government and then there's

2507
01:38:37,270 --> 01:38:34,719
other people within the government who

2508
01:38:39,750 --> 01:38:37,280
are trying to squash him like you you

2509
01:38:41,030 --> 01:38:39,760
it's sort of it keeps going and it's i

2510
01:38:43,030 --> 01:38:41,040
don't think it's because of richard

2511
01:38:44,950 --> 01:38:43,040
dodie i think it's because that's just

2512
01:38:47,510 --> 01:38:44,960
how it's sort of always been this is how

2513
01:38:49,950 --> 01:38:47,520
the ufo community has sort of formed um

2514
01:38:53,030 --> 01:38:49,960
ever since its beginnings in in the

2515
01:38:54,310 --> 01:38:53,040
1940s and 50s and what i mean by that is

2516
01:38:56,550 --> 01:38:54,320
like sort of what we mean in the ufo

2517
01:38:58,790 --> 01:38:56,560
community today to be um that's kind of

2518
01:39:00,790 --> 01:38:58,800
been how it's sort of always been i

2519
01:39:03,430 --> 01:39:00,800
think um

2520
01:39:04,870 --> 01:39:03,440
since since the beginning of ufo modern

2521
01:39:06,550 --> 01:39:04,880
ufo history

2522
01:39:08,229 --> 01:39:06,560
should we at

2523
01:39:12,790 --> 01:39:08,239
how long

2524
01:39:14,790 --> 01:39:12,800
what's the standard since we don't have

2525
01:39:17,990 --> 01:39:14,800
that ivory tower

2526
01:39:20,950 --> 01:39:18,000
how much time needs to pass

2527
01:39:22,550 --> 01:39:20,960
before the trust is established you know

2528
01:39:24,550 --> 01:39:22,560
what i mean what

2529
01:39:25,510 --> 01:39:24,560
shouldn't you have some type of track

2530
01:39:28,470 --> 01:39:25,520
record

2531
01:39:31,189 --> 01:39:28,480
or right now is the ufo community going

2532
01:39:32,629 --> 01:39:31,199
all in with something like ttsa or any

2533
01:39:34,149 --> 01:39:32,639
whistleblower

2534
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:34,159
right so i

2535
01:39:38,149 --> 01:39:36,560
i have a chapter in my book dedicated to

2536
01:39:40,629 --> 01:39:38,159
to sort of the invisible college right

2537
01:39:43,590 --> 01:39:40,639
and and i have interviews from like dr

2538
01:39:45,669 --> 01:39:43,600
kit green hal put off dr gary nolan from

2539
01:39:48,550 --> 01:39:45,679
stanford university who are sort of

2540
01:39:50,229 --> 01:39:48,560
these sort of ufo insiders right these

2541
01:39:51,990 --> 01:39:50,239
these people who who study the

2542
01:39:53,910 --> 01:39:52,000
phenomenon and they have worked with the

2543
01:39:55,830 --> 01:39:53,920
government and their former cia or their

2544
01:39:58,629 --> 01:39:55,840
former intelligence operatives and they

2545
01:40:01,189 --> 01:39:58,639
have clearances and and whatever um so i

2546
01:40:03,590 --> 01:40:01,199
have a lot of of their research their

2547
01:40:05,030 --> 01:40:03,600
current research in my book

2548
01:40:06,550 --> 01:40:05,040
and and what they're

2549
01:40:08,629 --> 01:40:06,560
sort of currently looking at and how

2550
01:40:11,270 --> 01:40:08,639
they're studying the ufo phenomenon and

2551
01:40:13,750 --> 01:40:11,280
and it's it's sort of fairly detailed um

2552
01:40:15,910 --> 01:40:13,760
and again it boils down to trust like do

2553
01:40:18,070 --> 01:40:15,920
when i sat down

2554
01:40:22,310 --> 01:40:18,080
multiple times with kit green to talk

2555
01:40:25,189 --> 01:40:22,320
about his um study of um people who've

2556
01:40:27,270 --> 01:40:25,199
been injured by uh anomalous aerial

2557
01:40:29,669 --> 01:40:27,280
phenomena

2558
01:40:31,270 --> 01:40:29,679
do i trust kit green right like when i

2559
01:40:33,750 --> 01:40:31,280
look at him in the eyes and he's telling

2560
01:40:36,470 --> 01:40:33,760
me what he's doing you know do i do i

2561
01:40:37,910 --> 01:40:36,480
take him at his word or do i think he's

2562
01:40:39,830 --> 01:40:37,920
you know he's playing me a little bit

2563
01:40:41,270 --> 01:40:39,840
because he was a former cia operative

2564
01:40:43,910 --> 01:40:41,280
the guy could play me like a fiddle if

2565
01:40:46,149 --> 01:40:43,920
he wanted to that's right so so you know

2566
01:40:47,750 --> 01:40:46,159
i i have to make that decision and i

2567
01:40:50,629 --> 01:40:47,760
sort of presented and i even just talked

2568
01:40:52,550 --> 01:40:50,639
about this in the book like i'm i'm i'm

2569
01:40:54,870 --> 01:40:52,560
a fool who knows nothing and i'm dealing

2570
01:40:58,870 --> 01:40:54,880
with people who are much smarter than me

2571
01:41:01,590 --> 01:40:58,880
um and but i i i trust like i trust kit

2572
01:41:04,629 --> 01:41:01,600
green that he's not lying to me um that

2573
01:41:07,830 --> 01:41:04,639
his research is legitimate um when gary

2574
01:41:09,669 --> 01:41:07,840
nolan tells me about uh sort of the the

2575
01:41:11,910 --> 01:41:09,679
the the genetic research he's doing

2576
01:41:13,590 --> 01:41:11,920
alongside kit green and his research

2577
01:41:16,629 --> 01:41:13,600
into the caudate potamen which sort of

2578
01:41:19,830 --> 01:41:16,639
is now public um you know again do i

2579
01:41:22,390 --> 01:41:19,840
trust gary nolan and and i do i have no

2580
01:41:24,550 --> 01:41:22,400
reason not to um but then again you

2581
01:41:25,990 --> 01:41:24,560
start looking into the past of of people

2582
01:41:28,550 --> 01:41:26,000
like kit green or hal put off or

2583
01:41:30,070 --> 01:41:28,560
whatever chris mellon um

2584
01:41:31,590 --> 01:41:30,080
jim semavan you know these are

2585
01:41:33,189 --> 01:41:31,600
individuals who who are definitely

2586
01:41:34,390 --> 01:41:33,199
players within the government or were

2587
01:41:37,830 --> 01:41:34,400
players within the government at some

2588
01:41:40,229 --> 01:41:37,840
point um so we need to again it boils

2589
01:41:43,669 --> 01:41:40,239
down to this notion of trust um do i

2590
01:41:45,990 --> 01:41:43,679
trust sort of richard dodie 100

2591
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:46,000
no i don't i trust him in certain ways

2592
01:41:49,750 --> 01:41:48,320
um i trust him in when he like when you

2593
01:41:51,910 --> 01:41:49,760
talk about his family i trust him but i

2594
01:41:53,669 --> 01:41:51,920
don't trust him when he talks about ufos

2595
01:41:55,430 --> 01:41:53,679
do i trust kit green when he talks about

2596
01:41:57,270 --> 01:41:55,440
ufos when he talks about you know

2597
01:41:59,270 --> 01:41:57,280
anonymous phenomena or gary nolan or how

2598
01:42:01,109 --> 01:41:59,280
put up you know i think i do trust them

2599
01:42:03,510 --> 01:42:01,119
my my gut and that's really all i have

2600
01:42:05,030 --> 01:42:03,520
to go by in this world

2601
01:42:07,109 --> 01:42:05,040
tells me that i can

2602
01:42:09,910 --> 01:42:07,119
um and and i'd be honest my gut could be

2603
01:42:11,510 --> 01:42:09,920
very wrong um i just hope it's not

2604
01:42:14,550 --> 01:42:11,520
let's take a break right here it's

2605
01:42:17,270 --> 01:42:14,560
getting heated in here mj it's hot it's

2606
01:42:18,950 --> 01:42:17,280
hot this is fade to black when we come

2607
01:42:21,189 --> 01:42:18,960
back we're gonna pick up what we're

2608
01:42:24,310 --> 01:42:21,199
leaving off we are going to talk about

2609
01:42:26,550 --> 01:42:24,320
and this is a a very serious subject the

2610
01:42:28,629 --> 01:42:26,560
invisible college

2611
01:42:32,149 --> 01:42:28,639
this is fade to black the book is called

2612
01:42:36,490 --> 01:42:32,159
the ufo people mj binnayas fade to black

2613
01:42:50,709 --> 01:42:47,590
[Music]

2614
01:42:53,030 --> 01:42:50,719
welcome back fade to black

2615
01:42:55,030 --> 01:42:53,040
our guest tonight is mj binayas his new

2616
01:43:00,310 --> 01:42:55,040
book is called the ufo people we've got

2617
01:43:05,669 --> 01:43:01,910
the paperback is going to be released in

2618
01:43:07,910 --> 01:43:05,679
a couple of days and now here we go mj

2619
01:43:09,590 --> 01:43:07,920
i've got another quote from you uh i

2620
01:43:11,189 --> 01:43:09,600
could read the entire book tonight on

2621
01:43:13,750 --> 01:43:11,199
the show

2622
01:43:15,590 --> 01:43:13,760
is is this um

2623
01:43:18,350 --> 01:43:15,600
and i'm quoting you say much of the

2624
01:43:21,430 --> 01:43:18,360
opposition is misguided

2625
01:43:23,990 --> 01:43:21,440
conspiratorial and even ridiculous the

2626
01:43:27,350 --> 01:43:24,000
exo politics movement disclosure the

2627
01:43:29,590 --> 01:43:27,360
alien nazis secret machines with a k

2628
01:43:32,709 --> 01:43:29,600
being worked on by lockheed martin skunk

2629
01:43:35,510 --> 01:43:32,719
works channeling alien communication and

2630
01:43:38,950 --> 01:43:35,520
ancient alien visitation are just a few

2631
01:43:41,910 --> 01:43:38,960
examples that fall into the trap of

2632
01:43:43,430 --> 01:43:41,920
ideological nonsense and

2633
01:43:44,470 --> 01:43:43,440
charlatanery

2634
01:43:46,629 --> 01:43:44,480
now

2635
01:43:48,550 --> 01:43:46,639
that's that's pretty heavy but that's

2636
01:43:49,830 --> 01:43:48,560
exactly what's going on and when we're

2637
01:43:53,189 --> 01:43:49,840
talking about

2638
01:43:56,790 --> 01:43:53,199
you know ttsa and and jim semivan and

2639
01:43:58,550 --> 01:43:56,800
justice and melon and elizondo

2640
01:44:00,390 --> 01:43:58,560
you actually you know you bring up you

2641
01:44:03,109 --> 01:44:00,400
know secret machines and lockheed martin

2642
01:44:04,149 --> 01:44:03,119
skunk works too as well is this

2643
01:44:08,870 --> 01:44:04,159
is this

2644
01:44:11,350 --> 01:44:08,880
being sold

2645
01:44:12,950 --> 01:44:11,360
well you know it's tough um you know i i

2646
01:44:15,030 --> 01:44:12,960
purposefully

2647
01:44:17,910 --> 01:44:15,040
i purposely leave out sort of to the

2648
01:44:20,229 --> 01:44:17,920
stars um you leave out you leave out a

2649
01:44:22,149 --> 01:44:20,239
lot of things and you should have i i

2650
01:44:24,070 --> 01:44:22,159
totally get that right

2651
01:44:25,510 --> 01:44:24,080
but nonetheless

2652
01:44:27,510 --> 01:44:25,520
you know partially because i'm not sure

2653
01:44:29,189 --> 01:44:27,520
if ttsa is going to be around like long

2654
01:44:30,550 --> 01:44:29,199
enough like like you would you don't

2655
01:44:31,910 --> 01:44:30,560
necessarily want like when you write a

2656
01:44:34,149 --> 01:44:31,920
book right you want to always sort of

2657
01:44:35,510 --> 01:44:34,159
look what's still going to be around in

2658
01:44:36,709 --> 01:44:35,520
five years or in 10 years because you

2659
01:44:37,830 --> 01:44:36,719
still want your book to be relevant

2660
01:44:40,470 --> 01:44:37,840
right like you don't want to suddenly

2661
01:44:41,830 --> 01:44:40,480
throw in your lot with you know like

2662
01:44:43,990 --> 01:44:41,840
something like let's say to the stars

2663
01:44:44,790 --> 01:44:44,000
which could fail in a year or two um you

2664
01:44:48,870 --> 01:44:44,800
know

2665
01:44:49,830 --> 01:44:48,880
it could um so you don't want to throw

2666
01:44:51,030 --> 01:44:49,840
that in your book because then all of a

2667
01:44:52,470 --> 01:44:51,040
sudden you know people like wait what

2668
01:44:55,350 --> 01:44:52,480
what is that i don't know oh that was

2669
01:44:57,109 --> 01:44:55,360
like nine years ago wow um so

2670
01:44:58,149 --> 01:44:57,119
yeah i was cautious in how i kind of

2671
01:44:58,950 --> 01:44:58,159
wrote that

2672
01:45:02,229 --> 01:44:58,960
um

2673
01:45:05,350 --> 01:45:02,239
but i i i can't speak necessarily if if

2674
01:45:08,709 --> 01:45:05,360
to the stars or to the source academy is

2675
01:45:10,390 --> 01:45:08,719
is sort of fake or or charlatanism i i

2676
01:45:11,510 --> 01:45:10,400
don't know i don't really have enough

2677
01:45:12,629 --> 01:45:11,520
data yet

2678
01:45:13,910 --> 01:45:12,639
to

2679
01:45:19,030 --> 01:45:13,920
um

2680
01:45:21,990 --> 01:45:19,040
of other examples i think of of

2681
01:45:24,550 --> 01:45:22,000
individuals or groups um that that sort

2682
01:45:27,189 --> 01:45:24,560
of play into this right they they make a

2683
01:45:28,550 --> 01:45:27,199
lot of bold claims and they say that

2684
01:45:31,270 --> 01:45:28,560
it's true

2685
01:45:33,430 --> 01:45:31,280
but provide no real evidence

2686
01:45:34,790 --> 01:45:33,440
um to back up their claims right you

2687
01:45:36,870 --> 01:45:34,800
just have to again take them at their

2688
01:45:39,510 --> 01:45:36,880
word um

2689
01:45:41,910 --> 01:45:39,520
and and really the litmus test for me is

2690
01:45:44,870 --> 01:45:41,920
is if somebody tells you they know

2691
01:45:46,950 --> 01:45:44,880
exactly what causes the ufo phenomenon

2692
01:45:48,470 --> 01:45:46,960
or they know exactly what

2693
01:45:50,790 --> 01:45:48,480
is the source of the abduction

2694
01:45:52,870 --> 01:45:50,800
phenomenon or the contact d phenomenon

2695
01:45:54,550 --> 01:45:52,880
or whatever if they if they stay this is

2696
01:45:57,189 --> 01:45:54,560
what it is 100

2697
01:45:58,790 --> 01:45:57,199
um you should not trust them

2698
01:45:59,590 --> 01:45:58,800
because no one knows

2699
01:46:01,990 --> 01:45:59,600
what

2700
01:46:05,350 --> 01:46:02,000
is actually behind ufos not a single

2701
01:46:06,790 --> 01:46:05,360
person um so so that's sort of my my my

2702
01:46:09,030 --> 01:46:06,800
litmus test you know if you ever watch

2703
01:46:11,510 --> 01:46:09,040
my my youtube videos um i end every

2704
01:46:13,109 --> 01:46:11,520
single youtube video with the same

2705
01:46:14,709 --> 01:46:13,119
sort of tagline and that's you know

2706
01:46:17,109 --> 01:46:14,719
always keep searching for answers and

2707
01:46:18,629 --> 01:46:17,119
never trust those who say they have them

2708
01:46:20,550 --> 01:46:18,639
and i think that's essential within the

2709
01:46:21,990 --> 01:46:20,560
ufo community i think we need to remain

2710
01:46:23,030 --> 01:46:22,000
critical and i think we need to be

2711
01:46:25,350 --> 01:46:23,040
critical

2712
01:46:28,229 --> 01:46:25,360
if anyone tells you they know something

2713
01:46:29,669 --> 01:46:28,239
100 in this field um

2714
01:46:31,189 --> 01:46:29,679
they're feeding you something and

2715
01:46:32,470 --> 01:46:31,199
they're basically they're they're either

2716
01:46:34,390 --> 01:46:32,480
delusional they're trying to sell you

2717
01:46:36,709 --> 01:46:34,400
something and then you know and we've

2718
01:46:38,310 --> 01:46:36,719
got somebody like kit green that comes

2719
01:46:39,510 --> 01:46:38,320
out says look man i don't know what's

2720
01:46:42,390 --> 01:46:39,520
going on

2721
01:46:45,990 --> 01:46:42,400
right it it it's just like okay i i get

2722
01:46:49,109 --> 01:46:46,000
it kit i i feel it from you

2723
01:46:50,550 --> 01:46:49,119
but dude you're xcia right so i i don't

2724
01:46:51,910 --> 01:46:50,560
know where to go with that

2725
01:46:54,390 --> 01:46:51,920
and and

2726
01:46:56,709 --> 01:46:54,400
and he is okay let's discuss the

2727
01:46:59,430 --> 01:46:56,719
invisible college because

2728
01:47:02,149 --> 01:46:59,440
uh you just named uh

2729
01:47:05,109 --> 01:47:02,159
all of these individuals who uh oddly

2730
01:47:07,750 --> 01:47:05,119
enough are all tied to ttsa these days

2731
01:47:09,669 --> 01:47:07,760
um but the invisible college what is the

2732
01:47:11,510 --> 01:47:09,679
invisible college

2733
01:47:13,030 --> 01:47:11,520
sure so

2734
01:47:15,510 --> 01:47:13,040
the invisible college when it comes to

2735
01:47:17,590 --> 01:47:15,520
sort of ufos specifically um it was a

2736
01:47:20,390 --> 01:47:17,600
sort of a term i suppose coined by

2737
01:47:22,709 --> 01:47:20,400
jaylen heineck and jacques valet

2738
01:47:24,870 --> 01:47:22,719
and it and it referred to a group in

2739
01:47:26,709 --> 01:47:24,880
sort of the late 60s 70s

2740
01:47:29,430 --> 01:47:26,719
uh who were

2741
01:47:31,590 --> 01:47:29,440
primarily academics um and there were

2742
01:47:33,750 --> 01:47:31,600
professionals who were looking at and

2743
01:47:36,470 --> 01:47:33,760
studying the ufo phenomenon but in sort

2744
01:47:39,510 --> 01:47:36,480
of total secrecy so they weren't the

2745
01:47:41,750 --> 01:47:39,520
usual sort of uh speaking at conferences

2746
01:47:42,709 --> 01:47:41,760
writing books about ufos kind of people

2747
01:47:44,470 --> 01:47:42,719
they were

2748
01:47:46,229 --> 01:47:44,480
um you know

2749
01:47:48,070 --> 01:47:46,239
professionals and academics or people

2750
01:47:49,750 --> 01:47:48,080
within the government who had an

2751
01:47:51,750 --> 01:47:49,760
interest in ufos but chose not to

2752
01:47:53,189 --> 01:47:51,760
disclose that they were actively looking

2753
01:47:56,390 --> 01:47:53,199
at it

2754
01:48:01,030 --> 01:47:56,400
and pursuing the ufo enigma

2755
01:48:02,950 --> 01:48:01,040
um so sort of move forward to 2019 today

2756
01:48:04,790 --> 01:48:02,960
really the invisible college in in

2757
01:48:07,750 --> 01:48:04,800
really simple terms is a very sort of

2758
01:48:10,070 --> 01:48:07,760
loose system of of individuals who sort

2759
01:48:13,750 --> 01:48:10,080
of follow that same principle they they

2760
01:48:15,030 --> 01:48:13,760
they study ufos in secret um but the

2761
01:48:17,350 --> 01:48:15,040
this invisible college has really

2762
01:48:19,750 --> 01:48:17,360
swelled and grown since the 1960s and

2763
01:48:22,070 --> 01:48:19,760
70s the internet has really changed

2764
01:48:23,750 --> 01:48:22,080
everything um

2765
01:48:26,229 --> 01:48:23,760
and and you have

2766
01:48:27,350 --> 01:48:26,239
you know i would probably say a few

2767
01:48:29,669 --> 01:48:27,360
i would say a little less than a

2768
01:48:31,270 --> 01:48:29,679
thousand most likely of sort of people

2769
01:48:32,629 --> 01:48:31,280
who know each other and a lot of them

2770
01:48:33,910 --> 01:48:32,639
don't know each other and then they sort

2771
01:48:36,950 --> 01:48:33,920
of form these little pockets or

2772
01:48:38,790 --> 01:48:36,960
confederacies who who who communicate

2773
01:48:41,189 --> 01:48:38,800
with one another and and throw ideas

2774
01:48:44,149 --> 01:48:41,199
back and forth um and

2775
01:48:45,430 --> 01:48:44,159
basically they study ufos the the the

2776
01:48:47,350 --> 01:48:45,440
thing though that is surprising about

2777
01:48:50,229 --> 01:48:47,360
them is they are often people who you'd

2778
01:48:52,149 --> 01:48:50,239
never sort of suspect um they're sort of

2779
01:48:53,030 --> 01:48:52,159
leaders in in

2780
01:48:56,310 --> 01:48:53,040
our

2781
01:48:57,350 --> 01:48:56,320
technology markets their leaders in

2782
01:48:58,229 --> 01:48:57,360
our

2783
01:49:00,550 --> 01:48:58,239
you know

2784
01:49:03,350 --> 01:49:00,560
how we look at biotech third leaders in

2785
01:49:04,790 --> 01:49:03,360
in government they're leaders in um

2786
01:49:06,470 --> 01:49:04,800
academic settings so they're they're

2787
01:49:09,030 --> 01:49:06,480
chairs of university departments

2788
01:49:10,790 --> 01:49:09,040
whatever um and and they're really

2789
01:49:12,550 --> 01:49:10,800
interested in ufos but they can't talk

2790
01:49:14,470 --> 01:49:12,560
about it because their professional

2791
01:49:17,430 --> 01:49:14,480
careers would be at risk

2792
01:49:18,550 --> 01:49:17,440
and why do you think that is that on one

2793
01:49:21,350 --> 01:49:18,560
hand

2794
01:49:24,950 --> 01:49:21,360
it appears that these

2795
01:49:26,790 --> 01:49:24,960
xcia or you know current cia

2796
01:49:28,790 --> 01:49:26,800
insiders and

2797
01:49:31,430 --> 01:49:28,800
defense department military industrial

2798
01:49:34,149 --> 01:49:31,440
complex individuals appear to be coming

2799
01:49:38,310 --> 01:49:34,159
forward and speaking about this

2800
01:49:41,109 --> 01:49:38,320
and and nobody is telling them to stop

2801
01:49:42,550 --> 01:49:41,119
right is it one of two situations

2802
01:49:44,629 --> 01:49:42,560
one that they truly believe in the

2803
01:49:48,070 --> 01:49:44,639
subject and they are coming forward

2804
01:49:50,390 --> 01:49:48,080
despite what uh repercussions would be

2805
01:49:51,750 --> 01:49:50,400
there or is it be

2806
01:49:54,229 --> 01:49:51,760
that they're coming forward because

2807
01:49:57,910 --> 01:49:54,239
they're being told to and it is some

2808
01:49:59,910 --> 01:49:57,920
serious amounts of disinformation i mean

2809
01:50:01,350 --> 01:49:59,920
or is it somewhere in the middle

2810
01:50:03,109 --> 01:50:01,360
yeah i think there's probably a third

2811
01:50:05,910 --> 01:50:03,119
option i think i think the third option

2812
01:50:08,790 --> 01:50:05,920
would be that um you know these people

2813
01:50:10,870 --> 01:50:08,800
are not breaking any rules when it comes

2814
01:50:12,629 --> 01:50:10,880
to their clearances or they're not you

2815
01:50:14,950 --> 01:50:12,639
know they're not they're not basically

2816
01:50:16,229 --> 01:50:14,960
you know committing treason by violating

2817
01:50:18,790 --> 01:50:16,239
their their

2818
01:50:21,030 --> 01:50:18,800
um their the rules of their clearances

2819
01:50:23,990 --> 01:50:21,040
so the government can't really step in

2820
01:50:26,070 --> 01:50:24,000
and say you can't talk about ufos um

2821
01:50:29,350 --> 01:50:26,080
only because you know what they're

2822
01:50:31,030 --> 01:50:29,360
saying is is not breaking any laws um

2823
01:50:32,709 --> 01:50:31,040
so i think that's sort of what's going

2824
01:50:34,629 --> 01:50:32,719
on here i think they may know a lot of

2825
01:50:37,109 --> 01:50:34,639
things i think when you speak to to hal

2826
01:50:39,350 --> 01:50:37,119
put off for example he knows a lot of

2827
01:50:41,030 --> 01:50:39,360
things that he can't talk about um he

2828
01:50:43,750 --> 01:50:41,040
will never say because if he does say it

2829
01:50:46,149 --> 01:50:43,760
it's treason um so

2830
01:50:48,229 --> 01:50:46,159
he has to be cautious um

2831
01:50:49,750 --> 01:50:48,239
so i'm not sure if if there's some sort

2832
01:50:51,990 --> 01:50:49,760
of big act of conspiracy within the

2833
01:50:54,550 --> 01:50:52,000
government to sort of shut down all ufo

2834
01:50:56,870 --> 01:50:54,560
discussion i mean that's impossible um

2835
01:50:58,870 --> 01:50:56,880
you know we know that's impossible um

2836
01:51:01,109 --> 01:50:58,880
and not only that i'm pretty confident

2837
01:51:03,350 --> 01:51:01,119
the government sort of wants us to talk

2838
01:51:05,510 --> 01:51:03,360
about ufos right because they know

2839
01:51:07,430 --> 01:51:05,520
the myth-making power of ufo discourse

2840
01:51:09,750 --> 01:51:07,440
right we generate our own

2841
01:51:11,750 --> 01:51:09,760
disinformation and misinformation i

2842
01:51:13,189 --> 01:51:11,760
could probably name i won't but i can

2843
01:51:15,750 --> 01:51:13,199
probably name

2844
01:51:18,629 --> 01:51:15,760
a dozen sort of ufo experts quote

2845
01:51:22,149 --> 01:51:18,639
unquote who speak at conferences um and

2846
01:51:24,629 --> 01:51:22,159
and have massive followings who receive

2847
01:51:27,189 --> 01:51:24,639
and take half of the information and run

2848
01:51:29,750 --> 01:51:27,199
with it and spin their own mythologies

2849
01:51:31,109 --> 01:51:29,760
um and they do it purely by accident and

2850
01:51:33,030 --> 01:51:31,119
they just have half the story and that's

2851
01:51:34,870 --> 01:51:33,040
what they go on and then all of a sudden

2852
01:51:36,790 --> 01:51:34,880
a whole new myth forms and a whole new

2853
01:51:38,790 --> 01:51:36,800
little piece of misinformation forms

2854
01:51:41,189 --> 01:51:38,800
which becomes kind of part of the ufo

2855
01:51:43,350 --> 01:51:41,199
discourse and is talked about at length

2856
01:51:45,990 --> 01:51:43,360
um and sort of becomes real quote

2857
01:51:48,629 --> 01:51:46,000
unquote and they just don't know

2858
01:51:50,470 --> 01:51:48,639
why do you think uh

2859
01:51:51,589 --> 01:51:50,480
why do you think that

2860
01:51:54,390 --> 01:51:51,599
uh

2861
01:51:55,990 --> 01:51:54,400
you know put off or kid green or melon

2862
01:51:58,470 --> 01:51:56,000
or semi-van

2863
01:51:59,990 --> 01:51:58,480
uh any one of these individuals i'm not

2864
01:52:02,950 --> 01:52:00,000
so sure about lewis i haven't quite

2865
01:52:06,310 --> 01:52:02,960
figured him out yet um i don't i'm not

2866
01:52:08,229 --> 01:52:06,320
sure what he actually knows but anybody

2867
01:52:09,990 --> 01:52:08,239
else that clearly

2868
01:52:11,750 --> 01:52:10,000
should know

2869
01:52:14,229 --> 01:52:11,760
the facts

2870
01:52:16,470 --> 01:52:14,239
will not say anything because if they

2871
01:52:18,070 --> 01:52:16,480
did if i was in possession of it i don't

2872
01:52:21,030 --> 01:52:18,080
care about my career

2873
01:52:21,990 --> 01:52:21,040
or anything else or my pension or jail

2874
01:52:23,990 --> 01:52:22,000
time

2875
01:52:27,109 --> 01:52:24,000
i come forward with this because it

2876
01:52:29,589 --> 01:52:27,119
would be the most pivotal moment

2877
01:52:31,109 --> 01:52:29,599
in human history

2878
01:52:32,709 --> 01:52:31,119
seriously

2879
01:52:34,790 --> 01:52:32,719
pivotal

2880
01:52:36,669 --> 01:52:34,800
going back through i don't i don't know

2881
01:52:39,510 --> 01:52:36,679
of a more bigger

2882
01:52:42,470 --> 01:52:39,520
explosive revelation

2883
01:52:45,510 --> 01:52:42,480
for humankind than that

2884
01:52:47,589 --> 01:52:45,520
why not come forward with it why not

2885
01:52:50,229 --> 01:52:47,599
why not be the most important person in

2886
01:52:51,510 --> 01:52:50,239
human history instead of doing this

2887
01:52:53,990 --> 01:52:51,520
dance

2888
01:52:56,550 --> 01:52:54,000
right um well i i

2889
01:52:58,550 --> 01:52:56,560
do do you have kids of course i do

2890
01:53:00,070 --> 01:52:58,560
right so so i suppose

2891
01:53:02,629 --> 01:53:00,080
let's say let's say you knew something

2892
01:53:03,430 --> 01:53:02,639
you couldn't say right um you know would

2893
01:53:04,709 --> 01:53:03,440
you

2894
01:53:05,830 --> 01:53:04,719
jeopardize

2895
01:53:06,870 --> 01:53:05,840
not necessarily their lives because i

2896
01:53:08,470 --> 01:53:06,880
don't think that would happen but i

2897
01:53:09,510 --> 01:53:08,480
think would you jeopardize your entire

2898
01:53:10,550 --> 01:53:09,520
life here

2899
01:53:12,390 --> 01:53:10,560
um

2900
01:53:13,589 --> 01:53:12,400
and and your family's life

2901
01:53:15,270 --> 01:53:13,599
um

2902
01:53:16,629 --> 01:53:15,280
in in just where they go to school or

2903
01:53:19,030 --> 01:53:16,639
where they went to school or or where

2904
01:53:20,629 --> 01:53:19,040
they work or or you know i think my

2905
01:53:22,629 --> 01:53:20,639
relationships you know what i'm gonna

2906
01:53:24,550 --> 01:53:22,639
answer you directly i think they would

2907
01:53:26,390 --> 01:53:24,560
be proud

2908
01:53:27,270 --> 01:53:26,400
really but no oh no sorry what it's

2909
01:53:28,950 --> 01:53:27,280
right i don't i don't necessarily mean

2910
01:53:31,030 --> 01:53:28,960
about them being proud but i mean like

2911
01:53:31,830 --> 01:53:31,040
would you would you be all right to do

2912
01:53:34,229 --> 01:53:31,840
that

2913
01:53:35,910 --> 01:53:34,239
as a parent so i i would be

2914
01:53:37,430 --> 01:53:35,920
i would be it's the same it's not to the

2915
01:53:40,310 --> 01:53:37,440
same extent but let's look at like the

2916
01:53:43,030 --> 01:53:40,320
edward snowden situation right edward

2917
01:53:44,790 --> 01:53:43,040
snowden came forward with um

2918
01:53:46,070 --> 01:53:44,800
verified information that the united

2919
01:53:47,750 --> 01:53:46,080
states government spied on its own

2920
01:53:49,189 --> 01:53:47,760
population

2921
01:53:51,750 --> 01:53:49,199
illegally

2922
01:53:54,629 --> 01:53:51,760
and what happened as a result right he

2923
01:53:56,870 --> 01:53:54,639
now currently lives in russia in an

2924
01:53:58,229 --> 01:53:56,880
embassy um or he has an apartment now i

2925
01:53:59,510 --> 01:53:58,239
guess but he lives in russia he can't

2926
01:54:01,510 --> 01:53:59,520
return the united states because he

2927
01:54:04,709 --> 01:54:01,520
would be charged with treason and

2928
01:54:06,070 --> 01:54:04,719
espionage um and it's and

2929
01:54:08,310 --> 01:54:06,080
you know he was sort of single

2930
01:54:10,070 --> 01:54:08,320
relatively he had a girlfriend but he

2931
01:54:13,270 --> 01:54:10,080
had no kids or whatever but he can never

2932
01:54:14,870 --> 01:54:13,280
return back home um and and he's sort of

2933
01:54:16,470 --> 01:54:14,880
stuck there forever

2934
01:54:18,629 --> 01:54:16,480
and and really has anything changed like

2935
01:54:20,550 --> 01:54:18,639
really you know did the united states

2936
01:54:22,870 --> 01:54:20,560
government change its policies on how it

2937
01:54:25,430 --> 01:54:22,880
spies on its own population did did we

2938
01:54:26,550 --> 01:54:25,440
suddenly revolt against the government

2939
01:54:28,390 --> 01:54:26,560
and say i can't believe this is

2940
01:54:30,950 --> 01:54:28,400
happening this is a grave injustice uh

2941
01:54:32,629 --> 01:54:30,960
everything needs to change no it nothing

2942
01:54:34,390 --> 01:54:32,639
really changed right we're still being

2943
01:54:36,709 --> 01:54:34,400
spied on we know that um this

2944
01:54:38,709 --> 01:54:36,719
conversation is being logged by some

2945
01:54:40,950 --> 01:54:38,719
algorithm in some server somewhere i'm

2946
01:54:42,070 --> 01:54:40,960
sure by the nsa or the cia not because

2947
01:54:43,589 --> 01:54:42,080
they're spying on you and me personally

2948
01:54:46,390 --> 01:54:43,599
but just because they log everything and

2949
01:54:48,629 --> 01:54:46,400
and tap everything and collect all data

2950
01:54:52,229 --> 01:54:48,639
um you know i mean really has anything

2951
01:54:54,470 --> 01:54:52,239
changed as a result of snowden's

2952
01:54:57,750 --> 01:54:54,480
um actions i think we're more aware of

2953
01:54:59,350 --> 01:54:57,760
it but we've sort of just moved on and

2954
01:55:01,750 --> 01:54:59,360
and and if somebody came forward and

2955
01:55:03,430 --> 01:55:01,760
said listen here's my evidence here's

2956
01:55:05,109 --> 01:55:03,440
the best evidence there is for for

2957
01:55:06,550 --> 01:55:05,119
aliens or ufos or interdimensional

2958
01:55:08,470 --> 01:55:06,560
beings or whatever

2959
01:55:11,510 --> 01:55:08,480
um you know it'd be interesting to think

2960
01:55:13,589 --> 01:55:11,520
what would happen to that person and and

2961
01:55:14,709 --> 01:55:13,599
would it be worth it in the end i don't

2962
01:55:19,830 --> 01:55:14,719
know

2963
01:55:23,750 --> 01:55:19,840
think you uh bring up a good point and

2964
01:55:25,910 --> 01:55:23,760
and what snowden did was uh and what he

2965
01:55:27,830 --> 01:55:25,920
revealed was certainly groundbreaking

2966
01:55:30,709 --> 01:55:27,840
and earth shattering there's no doubt

2967
01:55:32,310 --> 01:55:30,719
about that um but he's still alive and

2968
01:55:34,629 --> 01:55:32,320
he's living in russia and he's doing

2969
01:55:38,709 --> 01:55:34,639
okay he you know it wasn't like he was

2970
01:55:40,709 --> 01:55:38,719
taken out but the ufo the ufo enigma the

2971
01:55:42,870 --> 01:55:40,719
ufo question are we alone in the

2972
01:55:44,709 --> 01:55:42,880
universe what does the government know

2973
01:55:48,870 --> 01:55:44,719
are we in contact

2974
01:55:51,589 --> 01:55:48,880
is a richter scale leagues above

2975
01:55:53,910 --> 01:55:51,599
nsa spying right we're talking about

2976
01:55:56,229 --> 01:55:53,920
something very you know and if i was in

2977
01:55:57,830 --> 01:55:56,239
possession of that uh information i

2978
01:56:00,149 --> 01:55:57,840
would definitely

2979
01:56:01,030 --> 01:56:00,159
i would i would be the martyr i really

2980
01:56:02,310 --> 01:56:01,040
would

2981
01:56:04,310 --> 01:56:02,320
do you personally believe that the

2982
01:56:07,030 --> 01:56:04,320
united states government knows what the

2983
01:56:09,030 --> 01:56:07,040
source of the ufo phenomenon is i do

2984
01:56:11,669 --> 01:56:09,040
oh you do okay yeah i do i do i

2985
01:56:16,950 --> 01:56:11,679
absolutely do like they know 100

2986
01:56:18,390 --> 01:56:16,960
well look i i when if uh if they are in

2987
01:56:19,990 --> 01:56:18,400
which i believe if they are in

2988
01:56:20,790 --> 01:56:20,000
possession with

2989
01:56:27,350 --> 01:56:20,800
uh

2990
01:56:29,510 --> 01:56:27,360
whether it's a drone craft some research

2991
01:56:32,149 --> 01:56:29,520
vessel that was sent here from you know

2992
01:56:35,270 --> 01:56:32,159
interstellar space

2993
01:56:36,070 --> 01:56:35,280
live beings on it or not right

2994
01:56:37,830 --> 01:56:36,080
um

2995
01:56:39,430 --> 01:56:37,840
that is the answer to the question right

2996
01:56:41,350 --> 01:56:39,440
there are we alone in the universe and

2997
01:56:43,990 --> 01:56:41,360
they have that answer

2998
01:56:46,070 --> 01:56:44,000
communication with fast radio bursts or

2999
01:56:48,070 --> 01:56:46,080
or anything like that i think that they

3000
01:56:50,629 --> 01:56:48,080
would have that information too

3001
01:56:52,870 --> 01:56:50,639
and absolutely they they know what's

3002
01:56:54,629 --> 01:56:52,880
going on and they're not the only ones

3003
01:56:57,030 --> 01:56:54,639
okay they share this information with

3004
01:57:00,550 --> 01:56:57,040
russia and china they have to

3005
01:57:03,510 --> 01:57:00,560
you know we're not we're not uh uh a

3006
01:57:05,910 --> 01:57:03,520
monopoly on this kind of information but

3007
01:57:08,950 --> 01:57:05,920
if i was in the no

3008
01:57:10,950 --> 01:57:08,960
you know uh to uh this is the other

3009
01:57:13,270 --> 01:57:10,960
example of this okay

3010
01:57:15,990 --> 01:57:13,280
we just we just stated that side of it

3011
01:57:18,390 --> 01:57:16,000
but let's go to the other side

3012
01:57:20,950 --> 01:57:18,400
the other side is

3013
01:57:25,189 --> 01:57:20,960
we don't know

3014
01:57:26,390 --> 01:57:25,199
forward with that

3015
01:57:29,189 --> 01:57:26,400
right

3016
01:57:31,830 --> 01:57:29,199
i mean one way or the other

3017
01:57:33,990 --> 01:57:31,840
instead of doing the dance

3018
01:57:36,709 --> 01:57:34,000
and the dance is what i don't like i i

3019
01:57:39,189 --> 01:57:36,719
just don't i i don't appreciate that you

3020
01:57:40,950 --> 01:57:39,199
know it if it come out one way different

3021
01:57:42,550 --> 01:57:40,960
look that you're studying it you're

3022
01:57:44,950 --> 01:57:42,560
looking into it you haven't quite

3023
01:57:47,109 --> 01:57:44,960
figured it out let's have that let's

3024
01:57:49,510 --> 01:57:47,119
have that conversation from a four-star

3025
01:57:51,589 --> 01:57:49,520
general from the pentagon just come out

3026
01:57:53,589 --> 01:57:51,599
and tell us the truth

3027
01:57:56,470 --> 01:57:53,599
right but they won't

3028
01:57:59,990 --> 01:57:56,480
you know that that's my point if if if

3029
01:58:03,270 --> 01:58:00,000
semi-van or melon or justice uh you know

3030
01:58:04,870 --> 01:58:03,280
knows that side of the coin tell us

3031
01:58:07,270 --> 01:58:04,880
don't do the dance

3032
01:58:09,830 --> 01:58:07,280
you know that's and that's my point you

3033
01:58:12,550 --> 01:58:09,840
know and it it one way or the other what

3034
01:58:14,229 --> 01:58:12,560
is it that you know just come forward we

3035
01:58:17,430 --> 01:58:14,239
can handle the truth

3036
01:58:19,030 --> 01:58:17,440
you know uh when uh uh when

3037
01:58:22,390 --> 01:58:19,040
the new york times came out with that

3038
01:58:25,430 --> 01:58:22,400
article mj uh you know back in december

3039
01:58:26,870 --> 01:58:25,440
of 2017. did people jump off of

3040
01:58:29,510 --> 01:58:26,880
buildings

3041
01:58:30,790 --> 01:58:29,520
right did religions collapse

3042
01:58:33,109 --> 01:58:30,800
no

3043
01:58:34,870 --> 01:58:33,119
it was like everybody's like well okay

3044
01:58:37,109 --> 01:58:34,880
there you go we always knew that that

3045
01:58:38,790 --> 01:58:37,119
was going on and that's the way that the

3046
01:58:41,750 --> 01:58:38,800
world reacted

3047
01:58:43,510 --> 01:58:41,760
right don't you agree with that

3048
01:58:46,070 --> 01:58:43,520
no yeah i agree there was no major

3049
01:58:49,510 --> 01:58:46,080
change really i mean not not within sort

3050
01:58:51,189 --> 01:58:49,520
of mainstream culture no no and and so i

3051
01:58:52,950 --> 01:58:51,199
i think that we could handle the truth

3052
01:58:55,589 --> 01:58:52,960
today i really do

3053
01:58:57,830 --> 01:58:55,599
um now i want to change gears a little

3054
01:58:59,510 --> 01:58:57,840
bit before uh we run out of time we've

3055
01:59:02,149 --> 01:58:59,520
got about 10 minutes left

3056
01:59:03,990 --> 01:59:02,159
uh the other aspect that you touch upon

3057
01:59:05,589 --> 01:59:04,000
in this uh

3058
01:59:07,189 --> 01:59:05,599
in in the book

3059
01:59:08,470 --> 01:59:07,199
is the

3060
01:59:09,669 --> 01:59:08,480
uh

3061
01:59:14,149 --> 01:59:09,679
the

3062
01:59:17,270 --> 01:59:14,159
imbalance

3063
01:59:19,030 --> 01:59:17,280
of the ufo community and you bring up

3064
01:59:19,990 --> 01:59:19,040
one point in there

3065
01:59:24,870 --> 01:59:20,000
uh

3066
01:59:27,589 --> 01:59:24,880
women

3067
01:59:29,350 --> 01:59:27,599
that abductees

3068
01:59:31,430 --> 01:59:29,360
tend to be women

3069
01:59:33,510 --> 01:59:31,440
contactees or those are the ones that

3070
01:59:36,629 --> 01:59:33,520
are coming forward and speaking about

3071
01:59:38,629 --> 01:59:36,639
this i don't hear much i don't except

3072
01:59:40,229 --> 01:59:38,639
for travis walton right

3073
01:59:42,149 --> 01:59:40,239
but i don't hear men coming forward

3074
01:59:45,030 --> 01:59:42,159
saying that they were abductees

3075
01:59:47,109 --> 01:59:45,040
why do you think that that is

3076
01:59:48,950 --> 01:59:47,119
man that's a tough question um you know

3077
01:59:51,350 --> 01:59:48,960
i don't know the the data comes from a

3078
01:59:53,350 --> 01:59:51,360
book called lure of the edge by brenda

3079
01:59:55,589 --> 01:59:53,360
denzler who she wrote it in the late 90s

3080
01:59:57,589 --> 01:59:55,599
early 2000s um but yeah it's something

3081
01:59:59,030 --> 01:59:57,599
like huge numbers of

3082
02:00:01,270 --> 01:59:59,040
like you said abductees that come

3083
02:00:03,430 --> 02:00:01,280
forward are predominantly women and and

3084
02:00:06,310 --> 02:00:03,440
the vast majority of sort of ufo experts

3085
02:00:07,910 --> 02:00:06,320
quote unquote um who talk about ufos in

3086
02:00:09,270 --> 02:00:07,920
a more distant sense like not what

3087
02:00:11,109 --> 02:00:09,280
happened to me personally but this is

3088
02:00:13,990 --> 02:00:11,119
what i know about ufos are men

3089
02:00:17,189 --> 02:00:14,000
um and you know i don't know i think i

3090
02:00:19,990 --> 02:00:17,199
think you know maybe part of it um

3091
02:00:22,629 --> 02:00:20,000
has to do with with the way you know

3092
02:00:25,270 --> 02:00:22,639
maybe we've culturally sort of just in

3093
02:00:27,669 --> 02:00:25,280
general sort of painted how how men and

3094
02:00:30,310 --> 02:00:27,679
women um

3095
02:00:31,990 --> 02:00:30,320
you know appear in in sort of political

3096
02:00:33,910 --> 02:00:32,000
discourse or or

3097
02:00:36,390 --> 02:00:33,920
um in just you know the general

3098
02:00:38,229 --> 02:00:36,400
discourse you know men cert take certain

3099
02:00:40,470 --> 02:00:38,239
positions because that's just sort of

3100
02:00:42,629 --> 02:00:40,480
how culture has raised them and and

3101
02:00:43,910 --> 02:00:42,639
women take other sort of more personal

3102
02:00:46,709 --> 02:00:43,920
positions because again that's how sort

3103
02:00:50,149 --> 02:00:46,719
of the culture has kind of um raised

3104
02:00:53,030 --> 02:00:50,159
them to be um right or wrong um

3105
02:00:55,109 --> 02:00:53,040
predominantly wrong but um you know this

3106
02:00:57,030 --> 02:00:55,119
is sort of the the potentially the sex

3107
02:00:58,470 --> 02:00:57,040
sexist state that that's what our our

3108
02:01:01,030 --> 02:00:58,480
contemporary culture's in and i think

3109
02:01:03,109 --> 02:01:01,040
you know ufology or ufo discourse and

3110
02:01:05,030 --> 02:01:03,119
the ufo community can't just follow suit

3111
02:01:07,109 --> 02:01:05,040
right like we said earlier with

3112
02:01:08,470 --> 02:01:07,119
um sort of contemporary culture we sort

3113
02:01:11,669 --> 02:01:08,480
of um

3114
02:01:13,669 --> 02:01:11,679
we kind of co-exist with it um so you

3115
02:01:15,270 --> 02:01:13,679
know i'm not sure why why that's the

3116
02:01:16,550 --> 02:01:15,280
case um sort of from a numbers

3117
02:01:18,709 --> 02:01:16,560
standpoint

3118
02:01:20,709 --> 02:01:18,719
i i don't really you know i can't answer

3119
02:01:23,510 --> 02:01:20,719
the question really yeah i know it's a

3120
02:01:25,669 --> 02:01:23,520
fascinating question because

3121
02:01:27,270 --> 02:01:25,679
uh it could be one of a couple of things

3122
02:01:30,149 --> 02:01:27,280
one uh

3123
02:01:32,790 --> 02:01:30,159
that e.t just likes to

3124
02:01:34,550 --> 02:01:32,800
abduct women okay all right okay so

3125
02:01:37,270 --> 02:01:34,560
there could be that could be an easy

3126
02:01:40,229 --> 02:01:37,280
answer and the other part of it is

3127
02:01:43,350 --> 02:01:40,239
that it's about the same but men don't

3128
02:01:45,750 --> 02:01:43,360
like to admit to it

3129
02:01:48,070 --> 02:01:45,760
oh interesting yeah there could be a

3130
02:01:49,669 --> 02:01:48,080
sort of weird sort of machismo maybe

3131
02:01:50,629 --> 02:01:49,679
right that that you know men don't get

3132
02:01:53,189 --> 02:01:50,639
abducted because they want to talk about

3133
02:01:55,350 --> 02:01:53,199
that the potential i could i could maybe

3134
02:01:57,510 --> 02:01:55,360
see that as a potential option for sure

3135
02:01:59,830 --> 02:01:57,520
yeah because i wouldn't admit to it i

3136
02:02:02,229 --> 02:01:59,840
could tell you that right

3137
02:02:05,510 --> 02:02:02,239
you know i don't know i don't know or

3138
02:02:08,149 --> 02:02:05,520
uh there's you know or if uh

3139
02:02:10,390 --> 02:02:08,159
the abduction experiences may have

3140
02:02:12,310 --> 02:02:10,400
happened with men but they don't maybe

3141
02:02:13,430 --> 02:02:12,320
they don't want to know about it too as

3142
02:02:16,149 --> 02:02:13,440
well they don't want to go through the

3143
02:02:18,550 --> 02:02:16,159
regression or they'd you know any type

3144
02:02:21,189 --> 02:02:18,560
of hypnotic therapy

3145
02:02:24,629 --> 02:02:21,199
that they just they just want to

3146
02:02:27,910 --> 02:02:24,639
ignore the possibility so we don't get

3147
02:02:30,709 --> 02:02:27,920
that data where women

3148
02:02:33,270 --> 02:02:30,719
are are probably open to regression

3149
02:02:35,510 --> 02:02:33,280
therapy and they want to find out

3150
02:02:38,470 --> 02:02:35,520
about you know missing time and they

3151
02:02:40,870 --> 02:02:38,480
they approach it uh a bit differently

3152
02:02:42,470 --> 02:02:40,880
than men would and maybe that's why the

3153
02:02:44,709 --> 02:02:42,480
numbers are skewed

3154
02:02:46,709 --> 02:02:44,719
right i mean i can't speak to what i

3155
02:02:49,270 --> 02:02:46,719
can't speak to sort of what the aliens

3156
02:02:51,350 --> 02:02:49,280
do only because i've never met one um

3157
02:02:54,149 --> 02:02:51,360
but i i can speak to sort of the the

3158
02:02:55,830 --> 02:02:54,159
more human aspects of of of just the

3159
02:02:57,350 --> 02:02:55,840
fact that when you look at you know ufo

3160
02:02:58,709 --> 02:02:57,360
conferences or when you look at ufo

3161
02:03:01,830 --> 02:02:58,719
books or when you look at

3162
02:03:04,950 --> 02:03:01,840
ufo media the vast majority of people

3163
02:03:07,109 --> 02:03:04,960
within sort of those expert positions

3164
02:03:08,950 --> 02:03:07,119
are male um so that's i'm not sure if

3165
02:03:10,470 --> 02:03:08,960
that's actually sort of an alien

3166
02:03:14,550 --> 02:03:10,480
phenomena i think that's just generally

3167
02:03:18,310 --> 02:03:14,560
a human phenomena um you know um men are

3168
02:03:21,430 --> 02:03:18,320
are are usually judged by um you know

3169
02:03:22,790 --> 02:03:21,440
their work and and and and the their

3170
02:03:25,030 --> 02:03:22,800
their character

3171
02:03:27,510 --> 02:03:25,040
um and women are often judged by like

3172
02:03:29,270 --> 02:03:27,520
what they wear on stage for example um

3173
02:03:31,189 --> 02:03:29,280
we see this sort of within the most

3174
02:03:33,270 --> 02:03:31,199
recent sort of election of

3175
02:03:35,189 --> 02:03:33,280
or the recent american election between

3176
02:03:37,350 --> 02:03:35,199
hillary clinton and donald trump right

3177
02:03:40,070 --> 02:03:37,360
um you know hillary clinton was often

3178
02:03:42,550 --> 02:03:40,080
criticized in the media by her clothing

3179
02:03:46,550 --> 02:03:42,560
choices and that never really happened

3180
02:03:48,709 --> 02:03:46,560
um on on the mail and with with mr trump

3181
02:03:50,950 --> 02:03:48,719
um so you know i think we kind of see

3182
02:03:53,589 --> 02:03:50,960
this sort of reflected within the ufo

3183
02:03:56,950 --> 02:03:53,599
community a bit um men are sort of

3184
02:03:58,870 --> 02:03:56,960
perceived to be experts um and and and

3185
02:04:01,589 --> 02:03:58,880
women sort of have to often fight for

3186
02:04:03,189 --> 02:04:01,599
their place a little harder um or

3187
02:04:05,910 --> 02:04:03,199
they're judged on on things that are

3188
02:04:07,589 --> 02:04:05,920
sort of irrelevant um so you know i

3189
02:04:10,390 --> 02:04:07,599
don't know i i can't speak to who gets

3190
02:04:13,510 --> 02:04:10,400
abducted more i don't know but i can't

3191
02:04:15,990 --> 02:04:13,520
speak to the numbers of of of conference

3192
02:04:20,229 --> 02:04:16,000
speakers um which which are pretty clear

3193
02:04:21,430 --> 02:04:20,239
yes and what so what is next uh mj i i

3194
02:04:24,310 --> 02:04:21,440
this book

3195
02:04:26,550 --> 02:04:24,320
should have been uh three times as long

3196
02:04:28,229 --> 02:04:26,560
are you working on a part two

3197
02:04:30,870 --> 02:04:28,239
um yeah well right now i am doing

3198
02:04:32,870 --> 02:04:30,880
research for for another book or two it

3199
02:04:36,070 --> 02:04:32,880
really depends on where my life goes the

3200
02:04:38,790 --> 02:04:36,080
next year um but yeah i'm definitely uh

3201
02:04:40,310 --> 02:04:38,800
doing more research uh for sort of other

3202
02:04:42,790 --> 02:04:40,320
books that are obviously similar to this

3203
02:04:44,790 --> 02:04:42,800
one or sort of a continuation um i'm

3204
02:04:46,550 --> 02:04:44,800
really working on my youtube channel

3205
02:04:48,950 --> 02:04:46,560
creating youtube videos sort of as much

3206
02:04:50,870 --> 02:04:48,960
as i can um which is sort of my my

3207
02:04:53,750 --> 02:04:50,880
current focus as well as my blog tara

3208
02:04:54,470 --> 02:04:53,760
obscura so yeah right now i'm just kind

3209
02:04:57,669 --> 02:04:54,480
of

3210
02:04:59,109 --> 02:04:57,679
riding through ufology and um

3211
02:05:01,189 --> 02:04:59,119
i i'm really

3212
02:05:03,270 --> 02:05:01,199
i've been recently reading a lot of sort

3213
02:05:05,430 --> 02:05:03,280
of 1960s

3214
02:05:08,870 --> 02:05:05,440
ufo researchers like gray barker and

3215
02:05:10,629 --> 02:05:08,880
john keel um to sort of get my my brain

3216
02:05:12,790 --> 02:05:10,639
into that mode a little bit i might sort

3217
02:05:14,550 --> 02:05:12,800
of do something in relation to them

3218
02:05:16,709 --> 02:05:14,560
i found them very interesting so that's

3219
02:05:19,109 --> 02:05:16,719
sort of my future at this point thank

3220
02:05:21,350 --> 02:05:19,119
you so much the book is a fascinating

3221
02:05:22,950 --> 02:05:21,360
read mj and i look forward to having you

3222
02:05:25,430 --> 02:05:22,960
back on the show

3223
02:05:27,350 --> 02:05:25,440
and uh there you go what a great

3224
02:05:29,109 --> 02:05:27,360
conversation tonight and thank you so

3225
02:05:32,430 --> 02:05:29,119
much yeah it's been an honor thank you

3226
02:05:35,310 --> 02:05:32,440
for having me it is tara

3227
02:05:37,189 --> 02:05:35,320
obscura.net and the links are over at

3228
02:05:39,669 --> 02:05:37,199
jimmychurchradio.com and you can get the

3229
02:05:41,430 --> 02:05:39,679
new book the ufo people right there

3230
02:05:42,629 --> 02:05:41,440
thank you mj enjoy the rest of your

3231
02:05:45,030 --> 02:05:42,639
evening

3232
02:05:47,830 --> 02:05:45,040
thank you have a great night

3233
02:05:49,189 --> 02:05:47,840
mj banayas what a great conversation all

3234
02:05:51,189 --> 02:05:49,199
right i'm going to take a quick break

3235
02:05:55,149 --> 02:05:51,199
right here this is fade to black i'll

3236
02:06:08,709 --> 02:05:58,220
747-228-2051 i'll be right back

3237
02:06:13,830 --> 02:06:10,870
welcome back fade to black thank you mj

3238
02:06:15,910 --> 02:06:13,840
binayas the new book is called the ufo

3239
02:06:19,270 --> 02:06:15,920
people we've got all the links up on

3240
02:06:20,790 --> 02:06:19,280
twitter you can go to tara obscura

3241
02:06:23,149 --> 02:06:20,800
the links are over at

3242
02:06:25,270 --> 02:06:23,159
jimmychurchradio.com

3243
02:06:27,270 --> 02:06:25,280
tearobscure.net and you can order the

3244
02:06:29,430 --> 02:06:27,280
book there the paperback will be

3245
02:06:32,229 --> 02:06:29,440
released uh tomorrow the next day on

3246
02:06:34,790 --> 02:06:32,239
amazon okay so there you go

3247
02:06:37,750 --> 02:06:34,800
amazing conversation thank you mj

3248
02:06:41,589 --> 02:06:37,760
and uh our community it's a trippy place

3249
02:06:46,550 --> 02:06:41,599
it is truly a trippy place and i've

3250
02:06:51,430 --> 02:06:48,709
and uh so the lines are open now and

3251
02:06:53,030 --> 02:06:51,440
let's go straight to the phones hi

3252
02:06:55,350 --> 02:06:53,040
you're live on fade to black who's

3253
02:06:57,350 --> 02:06:55,360
calling

3254
02:06:58,950 --> 02:06:57,360
hi jimmy this is dennis from tennessee

3255
02:07:00,550 --> 02:06:58,960
hey dennis from tennessee how are you

3256
02:07:02,390 --> 02:07:00,560
man

3257
02:07:04,550 --> 02:07:02,400
i'm great i tried to call you last night

3258
02:07:05,990 --> 02:07:04,560
anyway

3259
02:07:07,750 --> 02:07:06,000
uh

3260
02:07:10,709 --> 02:07:07,760
i kind of had an answer to a question

3261
02:07:14,709 --> 02:07:10,719
you had earlier what's that whenever um

3262
02:07:17,030 --> 02:07:14,719
let me see your question was uh

3263
02:07:19,750 --> 02:07:17,040
why don't we have any ufo standards to

3264
02:07:22,709 --> 02:07:19,760
go by you know in the ufo community

3265
02:07:25,750 --> 02:07:22,719
and basically it's dr greer

3266
02:07:27,910 --> 02:07:25,760
if you go by his standards all of his

3267
02:07:30,310 --> 02:07:27,920
stuff is he has to have the

3268
02:07:33,510 --> 02:07:30,320
documentation that i love the guy

3269
02:07:36,470 --> 02:07:33,520
but he has no give he has no leeway

3270
02:07:38,470 --> 02:07:36,480
and then if you go by david wilcox he

3271
02:07:42,470 --> 02:07:38,480
had years and years

3272
02:07:43,910 --> 02:07:42,480
of experience and people and

3273
02:07:46,709 --> 02:07:43,920
you know you either believe them or you

3274
02:07:50,950 --> 02:07:46,719
don't but i mean come on the guy

3275
02:07:53,589 --> 02:07:50,960
researches you know out the union

3276
02:07:56,310 --> 02:07:53,599
then emery smith

3277
02:07:57,830 --> 02:07:56,320
he's done he's got documentation for his

3278
02:08:01,510 --> 02:07:57,840
military service

3279
02:08:03,270 --> 02:08:01,520
his medical his company you know them

3280
02:08:05,350 --> 02:08:03,280
suing him and taking it and all the rest

3281
02:08:07,189 --> 02:08:05,360
of that but he has no

3282
02:08:09,189 --> 02:08:07,199
proof

3283
02:08:11,350 --> 02:08:09,199
and then you even have like uh like

3284
02:08:13,270 --> 02:08:11,360
corey good his 20 in back it's like okay

3285
02:08:14,870 --> 02:08:13,280
i can't prove to you that i

3286
02:08:17,189 --> 02:08:14,880
served for 20 years and then they

3287
02:08:19,510 --> 02:08:17,199
regressed me brought my body back put me

3288
02:08:21,510 --> 02:08:19,520
back in 17 again and then i've lived my

3289
02:08:25,189 --> 02:08:21,520
life right

3290
02:08:26,550 --> 02:08:25,199
so if you go through just those three

3291
02:08:29,669 --> 02:08:26,560
then

3292
02:08:33,589 --> 02:08:29,679
you either believe them or you don't and

3293
02:08:36,229 --> 02:08:33,599
you can't make a standard

3294
02:08:38,470 --> 02:08:36,239
there is no you know no ivory tower that

3295
02:08:40,870 --> 02:08:38,480
we can put up because

3296
02:08:41,750 --> 02:08:40,880
if you did then you would be saying okay

3297
02:08:43,510 --> 02:08:41,760
well

3298
02:08:46,149 --> 02:08:43,520
i believe dr greer

3299
02:08:48,709 --> 02:08:46,159
he has the right answers

3300
02:08:49,669 --> 02:08:48,719
but he has because he has documentation

3301
02:08:50,709 --> 02:08:49,679
then

3302
02:08:51,830 --> 02:08:50,719
you know

3303
02:08:53,910 --> 02:08:51,840
wilcox

3304
02:08:55,270 --> 02:08:53,920
he has some documentation but he has

3305
02:08:57,510 --> 02:08:55,280
insiders

3306
02:08:59,430 --> 02:08:57,520
smith he has documentation but he has no

3307
02:09:02,069 --> 02:08:59,440
proof he can't bring you a slide say

3308
02:09:02,790 --> 02:09:02,079
here this is an alien

3309
02:09:04,870 --> 02:09:02,800
so

3310
02:09:06,310 --> 02:09:04,880
you can't have um

3311
02:09:07,430 --> 02:09:06,320
like you said you can't have an ivory

3312
02:09:09,109 --> 02:09:07,440
tower

3313
02:09:10,470 --> 02:09:09,119
it's impossible

3314
02:09:12,550 --> 02:09:10,480
right otherwise you're putting

3315
02:09:14,550 --> 02:09:12,560
limitations yeah yeah and you're right

3316
02:09:18,069 --> 02:09:14,560
about that and see

3317
02:09:21,030 --> 02:09:18,079
this is the thing dennis that that is

3318
02:09:22,870 --> 02:09:21,040
one of the the points that i try to

3319
02:09:25,350 --> 02:09:22,880
drive home as often as i can on this

3320
02:09:27,830 --> 02:09:25,360
show which is if you listen to fade to

3321
02:09:29,990 --> 02:09:27,840
black uh night after night and we've

3322
02:09:31,669 --> 02:09:30,000
done you know over a thousand broadcasts

3323
02:09:33,990 --> 02:09:31,679
and then you combine what i've done over

3324
02:09:36,390 --> 02:09:34,000
at uh coast to coast and and all the

3325
02:09:39,229 --> 02:09:36,400
television stuff when you when you look

3326
02:09:42,550 --> 02:09:39,239
at all of that so much of it can be

3327
02:09:45,750 --> 02:09:42,560
contradictory day in and day out

3328
02:09:47,189 --> 02:09:45,760
right and and it is a difficult thing to

3329
02:09:50,069 --> 02:09:47,199
do but

3330
02:09:51,750 --> 02:09:50,079
what we have to do and that is the

3331
02:09:54,310 --> 02:09:51,760
standard that we have in the ufo

3332
02:09:56,229 --> 02:09:54,320
community is we have to listen to

3333
02:09:57,350 --> 02:09:56,239
everything you don't have to believe

3334
02:10:02,390 --> 02:09:57,360
everything

3335
02:10:04,229 --> 02:10:02,400
that's that's really the bottom line you

3336
02:10:07,350 --> 02:10:04,239
have to just collect it all what you

3337
02:10:09,350 --> 02:10:07,360
resonate with and don't resonate with

3338
02:10:12,550 --> 02:10:09,360
well that's that's that you know that's

3339
02:10:13,350 --> 02:10:12,560
your gold standard you know and that's

3340
02:10:18,790 --> 02:10:13,360
that's

3341
02:10:22,069 --> 02:10:18,800
we get into a danger zone dennis is when

3342
02:10:24,709 --> 02:10:22,079
we stop listening or we say hey

3343
02:10:28,950 --> 02:10:24,719
i'm right and you're wrong when when

3344
02:10:31,030 --> 02:10:28,960
that happens nobody can tell me uh or

3345
02:10:32,470 --> 02:10:31,040
somebody else that their experiences

3346
02:10:35,669 --> 02:10:32,480
weren't real

3347
02:10:37,589 --> 02:10:35,679
you you can't do that you you can't and

3348
02:10:39,830 --> 02:10:37,599
and that's that's the danger zone that

3349
02:10:42,629 --> 02:10:39,840
we get into but you're absolutely right

3350
02:10:44,390 --> 02:10:42,639
we just have to listen to everybody and

3351
02:10:46,069 --> 02:10:44,400
and

3352
02:10:49,270 --> 02:10:46,079
i do have one question for you i tried

3353
02:10:51,750 --> 02:10:49,280
to call you during your emerald tablet

3354
02:10:55,830 --> 02:10:51,760
okay that was a live broadcast right

3355
02:10:58,629 --> 02:10:55,840
they all are like this one yes

3356
02:10:59,430 --> 02:10:58,639
oh okay i i so wanted to get through to

3357
02:11:04,950 --> 02:10:59,440
you

3358
02:11:07,830 --> 02:11:04,960
that was the third time i saw it

3359
02:11:09,669 --> 02:11:07,840
word for word expression on your face

3360
02:11:12,069 --> 02:11:09,679
turning in your chair

3361
02:11:14,229 --> 02:11:12,079
going up to the mic

3362
02:11:17,589 --> 02:11:14,239
that was the third time i watched you do

3363
02:11:20,550 --> 02:11:18,950
that's trippy

3364
02:11:21,910 --> 02:11:20,560
i know wow

3365
02:11:25,350 --> 02:11:21,920
wow

3366
02:11:27,830 --> 02:11:25,360
how cool is that so deja vu

3367
02:11:30,550 --> 02:11:27,840
yeah your stephen hawkins question yes

3368
02:11:34,069 --> 02:11:30,560
and the time party

3369
02:11:35,189 --> 02:11:34,079
it was the third time you've had that

3370
02:11:36,709 --> 02:11:35,199
on there

3371
02:11:38,709 --> 02:11:36,719
wow

3372
02:11:40,310 --> 02:11:38,719
deja vu man

3373
02:11:42,149 --> 02:11:40,320
i had to tell you that

3374
02:11:43,990 --> 02:11:42,159
thank you so much dennis enjoy the rest

3375
02:11:46,870 --> 02:11:44,000
of your night

3376
02:11:48,069 --> 02:11:46,880
you too thank you very very much yeah

3377
02:11:49,109 --> 02:11:48,079
thank you

3378
02:11:51,990 --> 02:11:49,119
um

3379
02:11:53,910 --> 02:11:52,000
deja vu happening live on the air you

3380
02:11:56,709 --> 02:11:53,920
gotta love that

3381
02:11:58,229 --> 02:11:56,719
that's uh that's pretty straight just go

3382
02:12:00,709 --> 02:11:58,239
back to the votes

3383
02:12:02,790 --> 02:12:00,719
oh hold on before i do let me do this

3384
02:12:04,870 --> 02:12:02,800
here really quick and i appreciate

3385
02:12:07,830 --> 02:12:04,880
everybody trying to call in right now

3386
02:12:09,830 --> 02:12:07,840
and i will get to everybody okay so if

3387
02:12:10,790 --> 02:12:09,840
i'm putting on hold just stay right

3388
02:12:13,270 --> 02:12:10,800
there

3389
02:12:14,629 --> 02:12:13,280
and i'll get to everybody all right hi

3390
02:12:16,629 --> 02:12:14,639
you're live on fade to black who's

3391
02:12:19,589 --> 02:12:16,639
calling

3392
02:12:22,470 --> 02:12:19,599
this kevin from eugene oregon hi kevin

3393
02:12:25,109 --> 02:12:22,480
from eugene oregon how are you

3394
02:12:28,229 --> 02:12:25,119
i'm doing all right jimmy i just uh love

3395
02:12:30,229 --> 02:12:28,239
your show totally addicted to it now and

3396
02:12:31,750 --> 02:12:30,239
uh because of the topic that you guys

3397
02:12:36,069 --> 02:12:31,760
had tonight i thought i'd call in and

3398
02:12:39,510 --> 02:12:36,079
share my ufo sighting oh what happened

3399
02:12:41,990 --> 02:12:39,520
i was living in duarte at the time down

3400
02:12:44,229 --> 02:12:42,000
here in southern california duarte yes

3401
02:12:46,069 --> 02:12:44,239
sir okay

3402
02:12:49,109 --> 02:12:46,079
and

3403
02:12:52,390 --> 02:12:49,119
i was had gone out it was about midnight

3404
02:12:54,390 --> 02:12:52,400
i had gone out this was in 2014

3405
02:12:57,109 --> 02:12:54,400
i'd gone out to look at the blood moon

3406
02:12:59,350 --> 02:12:57,119
which it was uh in 2014 i think it was

3407
02:13:00,709 --> 02:12:59,360
like june early summer somewhere in

3408
02:13:01,830 --> 02:13:00,719
there okay

3409
02:13:07,030 --> 02:13:01,840
and

3410
02:13:07,830 --> 02:13:07,040
about maybe halfway

3411
02:13:10,310 --> 02:13:07,840
or

3412
02:13:13,350 --> 02:13:10,320
almost completely blood but when at the

3413
02:13:14,629 --> 02:13:13,360
time i got out to look at it

3414
02:13:18,709 --> 02:13:14,639
and

3415
02:13:21,430 --> 02:13:18,719
house

3416
02:13:24,629 --> 02:13:21,440
which looks down into

3417
02:13:26,310 --> 02:13:24,639
uh southward into what would be covina

3418
02:13:28,550 --> 02:13:26,320
down there

3419
02:13:31,910 --> 02:13:28,560
and i see a full sky you know it's night

3420
02:13:33,430 --> 02:13:31,920
sky and uh here comes something in the

3421
02:13:37,189 --> 02:13:33,440
sky

3422
02:13:39,830 --> 02:13:37,199
and i look at it and i i can see

3423
02:13:42,229 --> 02:13:39,840
it's i think it's a plane but this got

3424
02:13:44,310 --> 02:13:42,239
no lights on

3425
02:13:46,790 --> 02:13:44,320
the only thing illuminating what i could

3426
02:13:49,189 --> 02:13:46,800
see was the city lights

3427
02:13:52,149 --> 02:13:49,199
and then i i took a closer look and i

3428
02:13:54,629 --> 02:13:52,159
see it's kind of cylindrical

3429
02:13:57,350 --> 02:13:54,639
a whitish color

3430
02:14:00,229 --> 02:13:57,360
and um i can't see the whole thing

3431
02:14:01,350 --> 02:14:00,239
because it's so dark but um that's what

3432
02:14:04,270 --> 02:14:01,360
i could see

3433
02:14:06,390 --> 02:14:04,280
now the cylinder was

3434
02:14:09,669 --> 02:14:06,400
perpendicular to the direction it was

3435
02:14:11,430 --> 02:14:09,679
traveling that was really weird

3436
02:14:14,310 --> 02:14:11,440
and i'm looking at it

3437
02:14:17,109 --> 02:14:14,320
and then i notice i cannot believe how

3438
02:14:18,950 --> 02:14:17,119
fast it's moving it's moving so much

3439
02:14:21,350 --> 02:14:18,960
faster than any jet

3440
02:14:24,550 --> 02:14:21,360
and of course it's making no sound and i

3441
02:14:27,270 --> 02:14:24,560
could look down i'm looking at all of

3442
02:14:30,310 --> 02:14:27,280
the other private planes flying around

3443
02:14:32,550 --> 02:14:30,320
you know over the city of covina

3444
02:14:35,990 --> 02:14:32,560
and i could tell it was at about the

3445
02:14:37,350 --> 02:14:36,000
same height so it was probably between

3446
02:14:38,709 --> 02:14:37,360
oh

3447
02:14:41,109 --> 02:14:38,719
four well

3448
02:14:43,109 --> 02:14:41,119
maybe two to three thousand feet

3449
02:14:44,310 --> 02:14:43,119
something like that

3450
02:14:46,069 --> 02:14:44,320
and uh

3451
02:14:48,310 --> 02:14:46,079
um

3452
02:14:50,310 --> 02:14:48,320
and and then so i'm watching it and i

3453
02:14:51,990 --> 02:14:50,320
can't i look around there's nobody on

3454
02:14:53,750 --> 02:14:52,000
the street there's nobody out i wanted

3455
02:14:56,390 --> 02:14:53,760
to say to somebody hey do you see that

3456
02:14:57,750 --> 02:14:56,400
you know right there's nobody around

3457
02:15:01,589 --> 02:14:57,760
and uh

3458
02:15:04,470 --> 02:15:01,599
and then i just watch it head north west

3459
02:15:05,589 --> 02:15:04,480
and it and it went over the mountain

3460
02:15:08,629 --> 02:15:05,599
range

3461
02:15:10,149 --> 02:15:08,639
and as i'm watching it then so then i

3462
02:15:13,669 --> 02:15:10,159
just to recount

3463
02:15:16,229 --> 02:15:13,679
to confirm i i i saw what i saw in terms

3464
02:15:19,669 --> 02:15:16,239
of it how fast it was going

3465
02:15:21,750 --> 02:15:19,679
i just uh reenacted it you know myself

3466
02:15:22,790 --> 02:15:21,760
and counted one one thousand two one

3467
02:15:25,109 --> 02:15:22,800
thousand

3468
02:15:29,030 --> 02:15:25,119
jimmy that thing was out of sight over

3469
02:15:31,830 --> 02:15:29,040
the mountains in eight seconds wow

3470
02:15:34,790 --> 02:15:31,840
and i wanna do that with chet

3471
02:15:38,390 --> 02:15:34,800
duarte is uh

3472
02:15:41,109 --> 02:15:38,400
off of the 210 freeway uh east of los

3473
02:15:44,470 --> 02:15:41,119
angeles east of monrovia east of

3474
02:15:46,550 --> 02:15:44,480
pasadena and arcadia heading uh heading

3475
02:15:49,750 --> 02:15:46,560
due east and

3476
02:15:52,149 --> 02:15:49,760
it uh like uh kevin's just describing it

3477
02:15:55,189 --> 02:15:52,159
overlooks the eastern part of los

3478
02:15:56,950 --> 02:15:55,199
angeles which is la puente and west

3479
02:15:59,830 --> 02:15:56,960
covina in that area

3480
02:16:01,910 --> 02:15:59,840
but going north west that where the

3481
02:16:04,069 --> 02:16:01,920
direction that this is traveling it's

3482
02:16:07,510 --> 02:16:04,079
heading straight towards area 51. it's

3483
02:16:10,790 --> 02:16:09,669
northwest i thought that would be north

3484
02:16:12,790 --> 02:16:10,800
east

3485
02:16:14,550 --> 02:16:12,800
northwest oh actually

3486
02:16:15,830 --> 02:16:14,560
well north

3487
02:16:19,990 --> 02:16:15,840
northwest

3488
02:16:25,030 --> 02:16:21,830
yeah yeah yeah yeah well i'm facing

3489
02:16:26,950 --> 02:16:25,040
south and and and it's going north west

3490
02:16:28,470 --> 02:16:26,960
that's towards vegas

3491
02:16:30,950 --> 02:16:28,480
oh okay well i thought that was more

3492
02:16:33,030 --> 02:16:30,960
eastbound no northeast would be just the

3493
02:16:37,349 --> 02:16:33,040
same no if it was going northeast it

3494
02:16:44,230 --> 02:16:39,509
yep yep okay yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

3495
02:16:45,830 --> 02:16:44,240
yeah absolutely don't throw me off okay

3496
02:16:47,830 --> 02:16:45,840
i just can't i don't have my bearings

3497
02:16:50,709 --> 02:16:47,840
about logic yeah yeah north west is

3498
02:16:53,110 --> 02:16:50,719
going towards the 15 which is uh las

3499
02:16:54,790 --> 02:16:53,120
vegas yeah very interesting great

3500
02:16:57,110 --> 02:16:54,800
sighting kevin

3501
02:16:58,950 --> 02:16:57,120
yeah it was great i i just couldn't

3502
02:17:00,629 --> 02:16:58,960
believe it i couldn't sleep all night

3503
02:17:02,950 --> 02:17:00,639
after that and then of course the next

3504
02:17:05,669 --> 02:17:02,960
morning i went and uh filed a report

3505
02:17:08,389 --> 02:17:05,679
with peter davenport's site yeah great

3506
02:17:09,910 --> 02:17:08,399
but you didn't take a picture did you

3507
02:17:11,349 --> 02:17:09,920
no i had no cameras and there wouldn't

3508
02:17:13,270 --> 02:17:11,359
have been anything to see because this

3509
02:17:16,469 --> 02:17:13,280
thing wasn't illuminated right only by

3510
02:17:18,950 --> 02:17:16,479
the city lights right right and uh

3511
02:17:20,629 --> 02:17:18,960
wow i just i just that whole evening in

3512
02:17:22,389 --> 02:17:20,639
my bed i'm just saying that just sitting

3513
02:17:24,070 --> 02:17:22,399
there going i cannot believe i saw you

3514
02:17:27,910 --> 02:17:24,080
ever know and it wasn't you know

3515
02:17:31,030 --> 02:17:27,920
anything typical it was bizarre it was

3516
02:17:33,589 --> 02:17:31,040
no lights and all that and you know

3517
02:17:36,309 --> 02:17:33,599
and cylindrical traveling perpendicular

3518
02:17:38,469 --> 02:17:36,319
to the cylinder is just weird yeah i'm

3519
02:17:41,349 --> 02:17:38,479
still waiting for my uh cylindrical

3520
02:17:43,910 --> 02:17:41,359
siding i haven't had one yet

3521
02:17:46,709 --> 02:17:43,920
and i've always i've i've you know it's

3522
02:17:47,990 --> 02:17:46,719
difficult for me to picture

3523
02:17:50,870 --> 02:17:48,000
um

3524
02:17:52,549 --> 02:17:50,880
i've heard so many reports we all have

3525
02:17:55,030 --> 02:17:52,559
in photographs over the years but i

3526
02:17:56,549 --> 02:17:55,040
haven't i haven't had mine yet and i

3527
02:17:58,709 --> 02:17:56,559
look forward to the day that i do so i'm

3528
02:18:00,309 --> 02:17:58,719
a little jealous kevin enjoy the rest of

3529
02:18:01,910 --> 02:18:00,319
your night and thank you for the phone

3530
02:18:03,830 --> 02:18:01,920
call

3531
02:18:06,790 --> 02:18:03,840
thanks jimmy thank you kevin that's a

3532
02:18:12,230 --> 02:18:06,800
great sighting so that's over duarte

3533
02:18:14,070 --> 02:18:12,240
uh blood moon back in 2014

3534
02:18:16,150 --> 02:18:14,080
and i'm just curious if anybody else was

3535
02:18:18,070 --> 02:18:16,160
in los angeles uh during the blood moon

3536
02:18:20,389 --> 02:18:18,080
back in 2014

3537
02:18:21,910 --> 02:18:20,399
if you saw anything back then i would

3538
02:18:23,910 --> 02:18:21,920
love to hear from you all right let's go

3539
02:18:26,309 --> 02:18:23,920
back to the phones hi you're live on

3540
02:18:27,349 --> 02:18:26,319
fade to black who's calling

3541
02:18:29,030 --> 02:18:27,359
hello

3542
02:18:30,389 --> 02:18:29,040
yes i am

3543
02:18:33,110 --> 02:18:30,399
yasha

3544
02:18:35,990 --> 02:18:33,120
akerman from

3545
02:18:39,190 --> 02:18:36,000
charlottesville virginia

3546
02:18:41,589 --> 02:18:39,200
and what's your name again yasha hey

3547
02:18:44,389 --> 02:18:41,599
yasha how are you

3548
02:18:48,070 --> 02:18:44,399
i'm good how are you it's a it's a great

3549
02:18:50,790 --> 02:18:48,080
night my man what's on your mind

3550
02:18:51,509 --> 02:18:50,800
um so i just want

3551
02:18:55,190 --> 02:18:51,519
i

3552
02:18:56,309 --> 02:18:55,200
to

3553
02:18:58,629 --> 02:18:56,319
warn

3554
02:19:00,070 --> 02:18:58,639
everybody this is my first time i'm

3555
02:19:01,349 --> 02:19:00,080
going on the air

3556
02:19:04,230 --> 02:19:01,359
and i think

3557
02:19:06,950 --> 02:19:04,240
it is a good time to warn people that

3558
02:19:09,349 --> 02:19:06,960
the great ayatollah is coming

3559
02:19:12,309 --> 02:19:09,359
he will fall from the sky

3560
02:19:13,669 --> 02:19:12,319
the great ayatollah falls from the sky

3561
02:19:15,509 --> 02:19:13,679
he will

3562
02:19:16,469 --> 02:19:15,519
land on earth

3563
02:19:18,870 --> 02:19:16,479
and

3564
02:19:22,790 --> 02:19:18,880
he will ask all of us

3565
02:19:23,910 --> 02:19:22,800
if they are able to define a woman

3566
02:19:27,509 --> 02:19:23,920
without

3567
02:19:29,349 --> 02:19:27,519
falling into essentialist

3568
02:19:31,910 --> 02:19:29,359
i have no idea what you're talking about

3569
02:19:34,629 --> 02:19:31,920
who's the ayatollah

3570
02:19:37,830 --> 02:19:34,639
the ayatollah ayatollah

3571
02:19:40,389 --> 02:19:37,840
i say my name is yasha and it is yasha

3572
02:19:42,629 --> 02:19:40,399
but ayatollah yasha is

3573
02:19:46,469 --> 02:19:42,639
here's another yasha

3574
02:19:49,750 --> 02:19:46,479
but who who who is the ayatollah

3575
02:19:52,230 --> 02:19:49,760
the ayatollah is heavenly being from

3576
02:19:55,270 --> 02:19:52,240
this guy he come from the sky and he

3577
02:19:56,630 --> 02:19:55,280
will come down onto earth and he will

3578
02:19:58,630 --> 02:19:56,640
where is he gonna

3579
02:20:00,230 --> 02:19:58,640
yashya where's he gonna come from what

3580
02:20:03,910 --> 02:20:00,240
do you mean the sky is he coming from

3581
02:20:09,429 --> 02:20:07,110
he will i i'm i'm not sure which planet

3582
02:20:12,630 --> 02:20:09,439
but it is definitely

3583
02:20:14,389 --> 02:20:12,640
a it is definitely of the sky and he

3584
02:20:15,590 --> 02:20:14,399
will come in large

3585
02:20:17,429 --> 02:20:15,600
vessel

3586
02:20:18,550 --> 02:20:17,439
of steel

3587
02:20:20,230 --> 02:20:18,560
and

3588
02:20:23,830 --> 02:20:20,240
other other

3589
02:20:26,230 --> 02:20:23,840
alloy metals and he is profit and he

3590
02:20:28,710 --> 02:20:26,240
will come to earth when is this gonna

3591
02:20:30,630 --> 02:20:28,720
yasha when is this gonna happen

3592
02:20:32,309 --> 02:20:30,640
this is going to happen on

3593
02:20:34,469 --> 02:20:32,319
uh

3594
02:20:35,510 --> 02:20:34,479
107 or

3595
02:20:37,910 --> 02:20:35,520
rather

3596
02:20:40,950 --> 02:20:37,920
a better way to put that would be

3597
02:20:45,270 --> 02:20:40,960
the election of andrew yang

3598
02:20:46,389 --> 02:20:45,280
in 2020 andrew andrew who

3599
02:20:49,190 --> 02:20:46,399
young

3600
02:20:52,309 --> 02:20:49,200
andrew yang is

3601
02:20:55,429 --> 02:20:52,319
and that's here in the united states

3602
02:20:56,630 --> 02:20:55,439
yes this is future president spoiler

3603
02:20:58,790 --> 02:20:56,640
alert

3604
02:21:00,389 --> 02:20:58,800
future president of

3605
02:21:01,670 --> 02:21:00,399
and he will

3606
02:21:05,349 --> 02:21:01,680
is it the

3607
02:21:08,309 --> 02:21:05,359
future president of the united states

3608
02:21:11,830 --> 02:21:08,319
yes andrew yang future president

3609
02:21:13,750 --> 02:21:11,840
of the united states

3610
02:21:15,590 --> 02:21:13,760
this is exciting so you're making a

3611
02:21:16,710 --> 02:21:15,600
prediction here or do you know the

3612
02:21:17,990 --> 02:21:16,720
future

3613
02:21:19,830 --> 02:21:18,000
and you know that this is going to

3614
02:21:23,190 --> 02:21:19,840
happen

3615
02:21:26,950 --> 02:21:23,200
i prefer the term prophecy but

3616
02:21:29,270 --> 02:21:26,960
the prediction works also so where's the

3617
02:21:31,750 --> 02:21:29,280
prophecy from

3618
02:21:33,270 --> 02:21:31,760
the prophecy the prophecy

3619
02:21:37,750 --> 02:21:33,280
is from

3620
02:21:39,670 --> 02:21:37,760
the the sacred text of jill's daughter

3621
02:21:43,750 --> 02:21:39,680
interesting

3622
02:21:45,030 --> 02:21:43,760
hold on yasha this is a pretty

3623
02:21:47,429 --> 02:21:45,040
interesting so

3624
02:21:50,070 --> 02:21:47,439
uh i'm going to note this this is

3625
02:21:52,389 --> 02:21:50,080
election day 2020 this is going to

3626
02:21:53,270 --> 02:21:52,399
happen

3627
02:21:55,910 --> 02:21:53,280
yes

3628
02:21:59,030 --> 02:21:55,920
if the text of jill so they are correct

3629
02:22:00,469 --> 02:21:59,040
which so far they have proved correct as

3630
02:22:02,870 --> 02:22:00,479
they are

3631
02:22:05,349 --> 02:22:02,880
based on materialist conception of

3632
02:22:07,670 --> 02:22:05,359
history

3633
02:22:09,830 --> 02:22:07,680
this is great well we'll see if it

3634
02:22:12,790 --> 02:22:09,840
happens yasha you want to be right with

3635
02:22:16,070 --> 02:22:12,800
this kind of stuff you know that right

3636
02:22:18,710 --> 02:22:16,080
yes okay will you have a great night i i

3637
02:22:19,990 --> 02:22:18,720
i've written it all down

3638
02:22:20,710 --> 02:22:20,000
i i'm looking at

3639
02:22:22,950 --> 02:22:20,720
you

3640
02:22:24,870 --> 02:22:22,960
i'm looking i'm looking i'm looking at

3641
02:22:28,150 --> 02:22:24,880
your picture here it's pretty

3642
02:22:30,230 --> 02:22:28,160
interesting so uh we'll see all right

3643
02:22:33,190 --> 02:22:30,240
have a great night

3644
02:22:39,030 --> 02:22:33,200
i love you i love you too

3645
02:22:47,750 --> 02:22:41,990
thank you i love you love you too

3646
02:22:52,870 --> 02:22:51,110
man that was great seven four seven

3647
02:22:55,270 --> 02:22:52,880
two two eight

3648
02:22:57,830 --> 02:22:55,280
two zero five one

3649
02:23:01,030 --> 02:22:57,840
uh eric awakening man where did you get

3650
02:23:05,990 --> 02:23:01,040
this uh where did you get this uh gif

3651
02:23:12,550 --> 02:23:08,950
oh man that was just too funny

3652
02:23:15,640 --> 02:23:12,560
uh election day 2020

3653
02:23:17,510 --> 02:23:15,650
uh the ayatollah's gonna come from this

3654
02:23:21,110 --> 02:23:17,520
[Laughter]

3655
02:23:22,550 --> 02:23:21,120
oh man all right uh getting back to it i

3656
02:23:23,349 --> 02:23:22,560
i gotta tell you man

3657
02:23:24,389 --> 02:23:23,359
uh

3658
02:23:26,710 --> 02:23:24,399
i i

3659
02:23:27,590 --> 02:23:26,720
that that uh that's entertainment right

3660
02:23:28,790 --> 02:23:27,600
there

3661
02:23:30,870 --> 02:23:28,800
uh

3662
02:23:32,550 --> 02:23:30,880
i know right

3663
02:23:34,790 --> 02:23:32,560
eddie from pennsylvania

3664
02:23:37,910 --> 02:23:34,800
that's exact

3665
02:23:39,510 --> 02:23:37,920
all right anyway back to um

3666
02:23:42,389 --> 02:23:39,520
uh

3667
02:23:44,790 --> 02:23:42,399
getting back to

3668
02:23:46,950 --> 02:23:44,800
uh i'm looking through twitter here i'm

3669
02:23:50,070 --> 02:23:46,960
trying to keep up with everybody

3670
02:23:54,070 --> 02:23:50,080
um i know that okay okay hold on hold on

3671
02:23:57,590 --> 02:23:56,230
wait hang on hey eric what's going on

3672
02:23:58,710 --> 02:23:57,600
man

3673
02:23:59,910 --> 02:23:58,720
wow

3674
02:24:00,870 --> 02:23:59,920
kind of shocked i didn't think i was

3675
02:24:03,110 --> 02:24:00,880
going to be able to slide in there

3676
02:24:05,349 --> 02:24:03,120
tonight yeah well no i was waiting for

3677
02:24:07,190 --> 02:24:05,359
you man uh i've got

3678
02:24:09,750 --> 02:24:07,200
i've got you're dating me

3679
02:24:12,070 --> 02:24:09,760
i you know i was i was holding off on

3680
02:24:13,750 --> 02:24:12,080
taking uh another call you know there

3681
02:24:16,870 --> 02:24:13,760
there are people that have been on hold

3682
02:24:18,070 --> 02:24:16,880
now for a while that are going man eric

3683
02:24:19,510 --> 02:24:18,080
got through

3684
02:24:22,070 --> 02:24:19,520
ah

3685
02:24:24,630 --> 02:24:22,080
okay all right they see what's going on

3686
02:24:27,270 --> 02:24:24,640
so uh where did you get this uh gift

3687
02:24:29,510 --> 02:24:27,280
from is that is that andrew yang i just

3688
02:24:31,670 --> 02:24:29,520
typed in troll i just typed in troll and

3689
02:24:34,230 --> 02:24:31,680
scrolled down and found it

3690
02:24:37,670 --> 02:24:34,240
is that him

3691
02:24:41,110 --> 02:24:38,790
oh man

3692
02:24:43,920 --> 02:24:41,120
the ayatollah is going to come in a ship

3693
02:24:49,830 --> 02:24:43,930
from uh made for many alloys

3694
02:24:57,429 --> 02:24:53,030
andrew yang is gonna get elected okay

3695
02:24:58,389 --> 02:24:57,439
so uh there you go all right so um

3696
02:25:00,469 --> 02:24:58,399
well what'd you think of that

3697
02:25:02,630 --> 02:25:00,479
conversation tonight look man i want you

3698
02:25:04,469 --> 02:25:02,640
to i love it i mean you know what's

3699
02:25:06,230 --> 02:25:04,479
funny is i don't know about two weeks

3700
02:25:07,990 --> 02:25:06,240
ago i started following him on twitter i

3701
02:25:10,309 --> 02:25:08,000
didn't know who he was i'm going man

3702
02:25:12,309 --> 02:25:10,319
this dude is smart i got to get him on

3703
02:25:14,230 --> 02:25:12,319
our show so i started contacting him and

3704
02:25:15,910 --> 02:25:14,240
he agreed and then lo and behold wow

3705
02:25:17,110 --> 02:25:15,920
he's on your show so i'm glad you got

3706
02:25:19,349 --> 02:25:17,120
him and that was a great interview you

3707
02:25:20,790 --> 02:25:19,359
were awesome tonight what show what show

3708
02:25:22,469 --> 02:25:20,800
do you have

3709
02:25:23,910 --> 02:25:22,479
uh you know our show the show that

3710
02:25:25,830 --> 02:25:23,920
richard dodie's going to be on next

3711
02:25:27,750 --> 02:25:25,840
tuesday the quantum hologram matrix

3712
02:25:29,830 --> 02:25:27,760
you're going to have richard uh okay

3713
02:25:31,990 --> 02:25:29,840
what's your show called

3714
02:25:33,990 --> 02:25:32,000
the quantum hologram matrix it's john

3715
02:25:35,349 --> 02:25:34,000
paul i'm just the uh i'm just the guy

3716
02:25:38,950 --> 02:25:35,359
that runs around at the conferences and

3717
02:25:40,550 --> 02:25:38,960
grabs these guys oh and you guys uh you

3718
02:25:43,750 --> 02:25:40,560
guys are gonna have dota why would you

3719
02:25:45,030 --> 02:25:43,760
have dodie on well because um just my

3720
02:25:46,870 --> 02:25:45,040
opinion and first of all i want to let

3721
02:25:48,790 --> 02:25:46,880
you know are you drinking are you

3722
02:25:50,469 --> 02:25:48,800
drinking the dodi kool-aid i'm not

3723
02:25:52,150 --> 02:25:50,479
drinking but i'm just i'm fired up right

3724
02:25:54,230 --> 02:25:52,160
now but i have the utmost respect for

3725
02:25:56,389 --> 02:25:54,240
you because i know

3726
02:25:58,710 --> 02:25:56,399
your research i mean i'm just a junior

3727
02:26:00,070 --> 02:25:58,720
researcher compared to you however

3728
02:26:01,830 --> 02:26:00,080
you've got to give me a little props you

3729
02:26:03,349 --> 02:26:01,840
know i do you know drive my butt out

3730
02:26:05,830 --> 02:26:03,359
there and get to these places and i do

3731
02:26:07,510 --> 02:26:05,840
find these people and i and i spent four

3732
02:26:09,429 --> 02:26:07,520
hours at dodie at the mega con i'm not

3733
02:26:11,510 --> 02:26:09,439
exaggerating and i mean

3734
02:26:13,190 --> 02:26:11,520
i think my judgment is pretty sound i'm

3735
02:26:15,990 --> 02:26:13,200
not saying it's perfect but i just think

3736
02:26:17,429 --> 02:26:16,000
the guy deserves another fair well i

3737
02:26:18,950 --> 02:26:17,439
know you don't believe this but i think

3738
02:26:20,309 --> 02:26:18,960
he deserves a fair hearing and we're

3739
02:26:22,469 --> 02:26:20,319
going to give it to him i'm not saying i

3740
02:26:24,070 --> 02:26:22,479
agree or disagree with him i just think

3741
02:26:25,510 --> 02:26:24,080
there's more to the story he told me

3742
02:26:26,870 --> 02:26:25,520
some things privately that he asked me

3743
02:26:28,630 --> 02:26:26,880
not to repeat

3744
02:26:30,070 --> 02:26:28,640
um and i love linda i'm not going to say

3745
02:26:31,590 --> 02:26:30,080
anything negative about linda but

3746
02:26:33,429 --> 02:26:31,600
there's a lot of information that we

3747
02:26:34,870 --> 02:26:33,439
both don't know that he knows that what

3748
02:26:36,230 --> 02:26:34,880
i'm trying to get from him that's really

3749
02:26:37,270 --> 02:26:36,240
the bottom line

3750
02:26:38,870 --> 02:26:37,280
hmm

3751
02:26:40,309 --> 02:26:38,880
you drank the cooler i would love you

3752
02:26:42,150 --> 02:26:40,319
know what i would love if you would call

3753
02:26:43,349 --> 02:26:42,160
in matter of fact no i would i would

3754
02:26:45,030 --> 02:26:43,359
re-up my uh

3755
02:26:46,630 --> 02:26:45,040
membership if you can call in and ask

3756
02:26:53,750 --> 02:26:46,640
dodie a few questions on our show i

3757
02:26:57,190 --> 02:26:55,590
look um i

3758
02:27:00,710 --> 02:26:57,200
i uh

3759
02:27:03,510 --> 02:27:00,720
if if if i was richard dodie and he's

3760
02:27:05,030 --> 02:27:03,520
probably well okay i'm not gonna say but

3761
02:27:08,070 --> 02:27:05,040
if i was really interested right now i

3762
02:27:10,710 --> 02:27:08,080
just want you to know okay okay if i was

3763
02:27:13,670 --> 02:27:10,720
if i was richard dodie

3764
02:27:15,110 --> 02:27:13,680
i would just ride my horse off into the

3765
02:27:18,710 --> 02:27:15,120
sunset

3766
02:27:21,750 --> 02:27:18,720
that's what i would do i mean why

3767
02:27:25,670 --> 02:27:21,760
why go to ufo conferences why hang out

3768
02:27:27,190 --> 02:27:25,680
why caught why why do interview why why

3769
02:27:29,030 --> 02:27:27,200
there's no reason

3770
02:27:31,190 --> 02:27:29,040
there's two films he's working on

3771
02:27:33,190 --> 02:27:31,200
there's that's what i'm saying why do

3772
02:27:33,990 --> 02:27:33,200
that i understand i understand why i

3773
02:27:35,510 --> 02:27:34,000
mean

3774
02:27:36,790 --> 02:27:35,520
why

3775
02:27:37,670 --> 02:27:36,800
well i can't

3776
02:27:40,950 --> 02:27:37,680
you know

3777
02:27:43,510 --> 02:27:40,960
if if uh if everything let's just say

3778
02:27:45,830 --> 02:27:43,520
this if everything that we said that he

3779
02:27:49,190 --> 02:27:45,840
has said is is true

3780
02:27:51,830 --> 02:27:49,200
then why say anything else

3781
02:27:54,550 --> 02:27:51,840
there there's no reason for it just

3782
02:27:57,030 --> 02:27:54,560
right off into the sunset and disappear

3783
02:27:58,389 --> 02:27:57,040
and yeah and he doesn't even know who is

3784
02:27:59,910 --> 02:27:58,399
this pratt guy because you brought up

3785
02:28:01,510 --> 02:27:59,920
this name pratt and i've never heard of

3786
02:28:03,670 --> 02:28:01,520
pratt and i'm just curious who is this

3787
02:28:06,630 --> 02:28:03,680
crack guy can you in a 20 30 seconds

3788
02:28:09,670 --> 02:28:06,640
tell me who he is they uh they were

3789
02:28:11,590 --> 02:28:09,680
going to uh write a book and this i

3790
02:28:13,590 --> 02:28:11,600
think the book was

3791
02:28:19,110 --> 02:28:13,600
uh

3792
02:28:21,110 --> 02:28:19,120
this is ufo folk folklore but there's a

3793
02:28:22,070 --> 02:28:21,120
lot of documentation out there the pratt

3794
02:28:23,830 --> 02:28:22,080
tapes and

3795
02:28:25,830 --> 02:28:23,840
and and stuff that they were going to

3796
02:28:28,790 --> 02:28:25,840
write a book the book was called project

3797
02:28:29,590 --> 02:28:28,800
aquarius they changed the name to

3798
02:28:34,790 --> 02:28:29,600
uh

3799
02:28:37,990 --> 02:28:34,800
i believe that's it and it's magic with

3800
02:28:41,510 --> 02:28:38,000
the j m a j i k 12.

3801
02:28:42,309 --> 02:28:41,520
um all based on mj 12 and

3802
02:28:45,990 --> 02:28:42,319
uh

3803
02:28:47,750 --> 02:28:46,000
the ufo phenomenon and i believe now so

3804
02:28:49,670 --> 02:28:47,760
so that's it that's it in a nutshell

3805
02:28:52,469 --> 02:28:49,680
because i'm gonna run out of time and

3806
02:28:54,550 --> 02:28:52,479
that all of this predated

3807
02:28:57,590 --> 02:28:54,560
everything else that ended up happening

3808
02:29:00,710 --> 02:28:57,600
anyway and i'm talking about the mj 12

3809
02:29:01,510 --> 02:29:00,720
documents and the aviary and and falcon

3810
02:29:06,950 --> 02:29:01,520
and

3811
02:29:10,230 --> 02:29:06,960
that the the story was already written

3812
02:29:12,150 --> 02:29:10,240
and that um now again i'm not saying

3813
02:29:14,389 --> 02:29:12,160
this is fact this is part of what

3814
02:29:16,870 --> 02:29:14,399
everybody else can go and research

3815
02:29:20,630 --> 02:29:16,880
that it involved i believe bill moore

3816
02:29:24,469 --> 02:29:20,640
jamie chanduray maybe uh pratt maybe and

3817
02:29:26,070 --> 02:29:24,479
dodie maybe and that this this book was

3818
02:29:29,110 --> 02:29:26,080
was out there and

3819
02:29:33,429 --> 02:29:29,120
and i think even in the book benowitz's

3820
02:29:34,710 --> 02:29:33,439
name was in there as dr berkowitz i

3821
02:29:36,790 --> 02:29:34,720
think that's it

3822
02:29:41,270 --> 02:29:36,800
instead of been words i i believe that

3823
02:29:44,309 --> 02:29:41,280
that that is the case okay so look um

3824
02:29:45,910 --> 02:29:44,319
that's it and if that is indeed true

3825
02:29:47,990 --> 02:29:45,920
what does that say about everything else

3826
02:29:48,790 --> 02:29:48,000
that ended up happening anyway i don't

3827
02:29:50,870 --> 02:29:48,800
know

3828
02:29:52,550 --> 02:29:50,880
but if there's enough dark clouds over

3829
02:29:53,990 --> 02:29:52,560
it that you know

3830
02:29:55,510 --> 02:29:54,000
ah you know

3831
02:29:56,469 --> 02:29:55,520
well let me just say this real quick

3832
02:29:58,469 --> 02:29:56,479
because i know you're not going to cut

3833
02:30:00,389 --> 02:29:58,479
me off in a minute but i i'm going to

3834
02:30:02,230 --> 02:30:00,399
give i'm going to ask him every freaking

3835
02:30:04,230 --> 02:30:02,240
question that you just asked and 50

3836
02:30:05,830 --> 02:30:04,240
other ones and and i think i've got a

3837
02:30:07,830 --> 02:30:05,840
good enough rapport with the guy i like

3838
02:30:10,070 --> 02:30:07,840
the guy i know i'm not supposed to like

3839
02:30:12,469 --> 02:30:10,080
him but just like nj said he is a very

3840
02:30:13,830 --> 02:30:12,479
likable guy and you know he might be the

3841
02:30:15,990 --> 02:30:13,840
smartest guy in the world or maybe he's

3842
02:30:17,670 --> 02:30:16,000
just a likable guy he's misunderstood i

3843
02:30:19,190 --> 02:30:17,680
just think we give him a chance and if

3844
02:30:21,030 --> 02:30:19,200
he if you know what if he can't answer

3845
02:30:22,950 --> 02:30:21,040
the questions accurately and he can't

3846
02:30:24,790 --> 02:30:22,960
give us a good responses then we can

3847
02:30:26,150 --> 02:30:24,800
have our opinions but i just think we

3848
02:30:27,670 --> 02:30:26,160
need to give him one more chance before

3849
02:30:28,630 --> 02:30:27,680
he rides off into the sunset that's all

3850
02:30:31,190 --> 02:30:28,640
i'm saying

3851
02:30:32,950 --> 02:30:31,200
no it's up to you it's up to you

3852
02:30:34,309 --> 02:30:32,960
it's up to you and then one more thing

3853
02:30:35,349 --> 02:30:34,319
one last thing then i'll get off your

3854
02:30:37,830 --> 02:30:35,359
air here

3855
02:30:38,630 --> 02:30:37,840
i just have to uh plug the show saturday

3856
02:30:40,550 --> 02:30:38,640
night

3857
02:30:43,030 --> 02:30:40,560
with pete we're gonna do a show called

3858
02:30:45,990 --> 02:30:43,040
altered and it's a call-in show only for

3859
02:30:48,950 --> 02:30:46,000
all the uh hybrids hubrids experiencers

3860
02:30:50,230 --> 02:30:48,960
contactees and starseeds and you and

3861
02:30:52,230 --> 02:30:50,240
rita at home you know eating your

3862
02:30:53,429 --> 02:30:52,240
popcorn drinking your vodka you can tune

3863
02:30:54,550 --> 02:30:53,439
in and listen i think you're going to be

3864
02:30:57,590 --> 02:30:54,560
entertained

3865
02:30:58,710 --> 02:30:57,600
i think saturday night well we might be

3866
02:31:00,550 --> 02:30:58,720
able to listen i don't know every

3867
02:31:01,270 --> 02:31:00,560
saturday night so if it's not this week

3868
02:31:03,990 --> 02:31:01,280
because

3869
02:31:07,349 --> 02:31:04,000
every saturday oh you're you're plugging

3870
02:31:09,030 --> 02:31:07,359
a new show on this show every saturday

3871
02:31:11,750 --> 02:31:09,040
night and we're gonna i'm gonna mention

3872
02:31:12,950 --> 02:31:11,760
fade to black on during our show as a

3873
02:31:15,190 --> 02:31:12,960
positive way i just want to know if

3874
02:31:16,950 --> 02:31:15,200
that's okay because you you are my

3875
02:31:19,190 --> 02:31:16,960
inspiration i'm not just saying that to

3876
02:31:21,110 --> 02:31:19,200
try to smooth you over i mean because if

3877
02:31:22,389 --> 02:31:21,120
it weren't for you i would have never

3878
02:31:24,070 --> 02:31:22,399
had the confidence to even talk to

3879
02:31:25,429 --> 02:31:24,080
anybody on the radio and i'm excited

3880
02:31:27,270 --> 02:31:25,439
about doing the show

3881
02:31:29,270 --> 02:31:27,280
all right well good luck to you man it

3882
02:31:31,510 --> 02:31:29,280
sounds pretty cool

3883
02:31:33,910 --> 02:31:31,520
it's gonna be fun all right eric behave

3884
02:31:36,870 --> 02:31:33,920
and be well okay and quit drinking the

3885
02:31:39,030 --> 02:31:36,880
kool-aid i'll talk to you

3886
02:31:43,110 --> 02:31:39,040
later okay man

3887
02:31:44,550 --> 02:31:43,120
eric awakening man and with that what a

3888
02:31:46,150 --> 02:31:44,560
great show tonight

3889
02:31:48,550 --> 02:31:46,160
and i want to thank everybody not only

3890
02:31:52,150 --> 02:31:48,560
that called in but twitter was just on

3891
02:31:55,110 --> 02:31:52,160
fire thank you for all of that and mj

3892
02:31:57,309 --> 02:31:55,120
bonaires and his website is tara

3893
02:32:00,910 --> 02:31:57,319
t-e-r-r-a

3894
02:32:03,110 --> 02:32:00,920
obscura.net the links are over at

3895
02:32:06,469 --> 02:32:03,120
jimmychurchradio.com the book is called

3896
02:32:08,309 --> 02:32:06,479
the ufo people a curious culture

3897
02:32:11,389 --> 02:32:08,319
and it is due out in the next couple of

3898
02:32:13,110 --> 02:32:11,399
days okay and the links are up over at

3899
02:32:14,469 --> 02:32:13,120
jimmychurchradio.com and we have them up

3900
02:32:16,950 --> 02:32:14,479
in twitter

3901
02:32:19,750 --> 02:32:16,960
aidan black's executive producer is rita

3902
02:32:21,750 --> 02:32:19,760
camareon shows produced by hilton j palm

3903
02:32:24,469 --> 02:32:21,760
renee dennis and bob announcers are

3904
02:32:26,790 --> 02:32:24,479
steve harder gene vettel mark d kobar

3905
02:32:30,710 --> 02:32:26,800
webmaster is drew the geek music doug

3906
02:32:32,950 --> 02:32:30,720
aldrich intro spaceboy spaceboymusic.com

3907
02:32:34,710 --> 02:32:32,960
bay to black is produced by kjcr for the

3908
02:32:37,750 --> 02:32:34,720
game changer network and syndication is

3909
02:32:39,990 --> 02:32:37,760
kgra the planet this broadcast owned a

3910
02:32:42,070 --> 02:32:40,000
copyrighted 2019 by fade to black and

3911
02:32:44,309 --> 02:32:42,080
the game changer network it cannot be

3912
02:32:46,469 --> 02:32:44,319
re-broadcast downloaded copied or used

3913
02:32:48,150 --> 02:32:46,479
anywhere in the known universe without

3914
02:32:49,670 --> 02:32:48,160
written permission from fade to black or

3915
02:32:52,469 --> 02:32:49,680
the game changer network i'm your host

3916
02:32:54,150 --> 02:32:52,479
jimmy church follow me on twitter at j

3917
02:32:55,990 --> 02:32:54,160
church radio

3918
02:32:58,070 --> 02:32:56,000
until tomorrow night fader night open

3919
02:33:00,469 --> 02:32:58,080
lines all night long i want everybody to

3920
02:33:04,640 --> 02:33:00,479
be safe